Denon PMA700AE amp
Any opinions on this $400 integrated? You can click to enlarge the internal view. There is also a PMA1500AE which is dual mono and costs 2x.
Could these be modded with good result?
Any opinions on this $400 integrated? You can click to enlarge the internal view. There is also a PMA1500AE which is dual mono and costs 2x.
Could these be modded with good result?
Hi Chuck,
Denon makes decent mid fi amplifiers. I'm betting you could get som good sound out of them.
I'd start with the cheaper one. Less chance of complicated circuits messing up you plans. Be aware that component values may be critical in some circuits. Don't do anything to it without a service manual.
-Chris
Denon makes decent mid fi amplifiers. I'm betting you could get som good sound out of them.
I'd start with the cheaper one. Less chance of complicated circuits messing up you plans. Be aware that component values may be critical in some circuits. Don't do anything to it without a service manual.
-Chris
Very fortunate timing but HiFi + had a review of the amp / CD combo this month.
Basically said if you're just staring out, start somewhere else. WHY??
Bass lags behind.
dead sound.
leading and trailing edges of notes blurred.
focuses on main elements, the minor stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
I think they said bright or forward compared to Rote. I think Rotel is bright already.
Can't remember the rest but you get the idea.
Here's some of my sayings:
Dead sounding Denon
rolled off Roland
B&W: Polite but bright, bass is tight
So I guess Denon still has that dead sound.
Basically said if you're just staring out, start somewhere else. WHY??
Bass lags behind.
dead sound.
leading and trailing edges of notes blurred.
focuses on main elements, the minor stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
I think they said bright or forward compared to Rote. I think Rotel is bright already.
Can't remember the rest but you get the idea.
Here's some of my sayings:
Dead sounding Denon
rolled off Roland
B&W: Polite but bright, bass is tight
So I guess Denon still has that dead sound.
Hi Chuck55,
Most reviewers are motivated by monetary factors. Read reviews with extreme caution and understand they are worth - not much.
Remember that some of the worst components have been well reviewed. Back in the late 70's, the Sure V15 IV was a favorite. Very brittle, harsh sounding. Most other good cartridges killed the V15. Counterpoint amps got good reviews. Sounded like do-do and exploded. Almost unrepairable. On and on it goes.
Denon has seldom gotten a good review, but some of their stuff deserved it. One of the "hidden" good components. I would take a Denon over a Creek, Naim or Rega any day. The list goes on. You will notice that Creek, Naim and Rega have all received good reviews.
Anyway, I would not describe Denon as being "dead" sounding. It does sound like amplifiers in it's price range, but a little more robust and tougher to hurt than most. They are not indestructible though.
My viewpoint would be that they represent better sound than most in their price range. Good value for the dollar. That is a fair appraisal, don't you think?
-Chris
Most reviewers are motivated by monetary factors. Read reviews with extreme caution and understand they are worth - not much.
Remember that some of the worst components have been well reviewed. Back in the late 70's, the Sure V15 IV was a favorite. Very brittle, harsh sounding. Most other good cartridges killed the V15. Counterpoint amps got good reviews. Sounded like do-do and exploded. Almost unrepairable. On and on it goes.
Denon has seldom gotten a good review, but some of their stuff deserved it. One of the "hidden" good components. I would take a Denon over a Creek, Naim or Rega any day. The list goes on. You will notice that Creek, Naim and Rega have all received good reviews.
Anyway, I would not describe Denon as being "dead" sounding. It does sound like amplifiers in it's price range, but a little more robust and tougher to hurt than most. They are not indestructible though.
My viewpoint would be that they represent better sound than most in their price range. Good value for the dollar. That is a fair appraisal, don't you think?
-Chris
I agree with anatech, Denon is usually quite good.
Lively sound and great value considering their price range and market. Of course they had their economy line as well, so keep this in mind that you can't expect professional when buying their econo products. Their high end is quite repectable though.
I can't speak to the newer products because I haven't purchased any store bought equip for many years. But Denon used to be way ahead of their japanese counterparts in engineering quality and sonic performance.
I always liked that they used the very latest DACs (BurrBrown PM63K) and were one of the first manufacturers to use the NE5532's throughout, when their competition were still using 1458's and 4558's. I suppose most manufacturers are still using the 1458s, which is a chip that never impressed me. Noisy suckers!
Lively sound and great value considering their price range and market. Of course they had their economy line as well, so keep this in mind that you can't expect professional when buying their econo products. Their high end is quite repectable though.
I can't speak to the newer products because I haven't purchased any store bought equip for many years. But Denon used to be way ahead of their japanese counterparts in engineering quality and sonic performance.
I always liked that they used the very latest DACs (BurrBrown PM63K) and were one of the first manufacturers to use the NE5532's throughout, when their competition were still using 1458's and 4558's. I suppose most manufacturers are still using the 1458s, which is a chip that never impressed me. Noisy suckers!
"My viewpoint would be that they represent better sound than most in their price range. Good value for the dollar. That is a fair appraisal, don't you think?"
I agree anatech. This is probably a good piece for $400. My take on Denon is it is more neutral than Creek, Naim, and Rega which all "do" something to the sound.
I agree anatech. This is probably a good piece for $400. My take on Denon is it is more neutral than Creek, Naim, and Rega which all "do" something to the sound.
Hi Chuck55,
Let's hear it for the average, cloth eared reviewer!
I understand there are a few reviewers with morals, I don't include them. You may have noticed that a bad review is always carefully worded. You have to read between the lines. Of course that won't help when reviews are falsified. I'm thinking of a couple of large publications.
There may be a lot you can do with the Denon to improve it's sound quality. It has one of the most important things. It has a good basic design.
-Chris
I have a big problem with simple, cheap circuits that use a cute trick to modify the sound. I hate them actually because they colour the sound and silly people pay big bucks for them. The reviewers make all this possible.
Let's hear it for the average, cloth eared reviewer!
I understand there are a few reviewers with morals, I don't include them. You may have noticed that a bad review is always carefully worded. You have to read between the lines. Of course that won't help when reviews are falsified. I'm thinking of a couple of large publications.
There may be a lot you can do with the Denon to improve it's sound quality. It has one of the most important things. It has a good basic design.
-Chris
The problem with many mid size amps is the many stages the signal goes through. Particularly when they have filtering stages and sometimes the way they use for switching things remotely.
Sometimes it's worth it jumping a few stages, with a mechanical switch, leaving just the stages you need to amplify the sound.
Particularly line level signals, like DVD or CD players.
Such extra parts may make things muffled.
The second things are electrolytic capacitors in the signal path, which are average types in less costly equipment. Many times that change is what brings the larger improvement and clears the act.
The transformer does not look too large for a 50W amp, and the weight shows it (7kg).
There are many threads on how to improve an amp, but of course you will need a service manual to do anything.
Sometimes it's worth it jumping a few stages, with a mechanical switch, leaving just the stages you need to amplify the sound.
Particularly line level signals, like DVD or CD players.
Such extra parts may make things muffled.
The second things are electrolytic capacitors in the signal path, which are average types in less costly equipment. Many times that change is what brings the larger improvement and clears the act.
The transformer does not look too large for a 50W amp, and the weight shows it (7kg).
There are many threads on how to improve an amp, but of course you will need a service manual to do anything.
Hi carlmart,
The transformer does not look too large for a 50W amp, and the weight shows it (7kg).
There is a large difference between a straight, high quality amplifier and a consumer grade receiver. Some are far too small, others with excessive power, the output stage then can not stand up to high levels. Remember that the design goals are different with mid range receivers and most people do not turn them up.
-Chris
Some are actually only switches and a volume control. The tone controls may be part of the feedback. Often, motorized volume controls are used.
The transformer does not look too large for a 50W amp, and the weight shows it (7kg).
There is a large difference between a straight, high quality amplifier and a consumer grade receiver. Some are far too small, others with excessive power, the output stage then can not stand up to high levels. Remember that the design goals are different with mid range receivers and most people do not turn them up.
You need to think about what many threads suggest and you certainly do need the manual or at least a schematic.
-Chris
Hi Carlos,
-Chris
True, but in order to cut costs, many use the main amplifier as the gain block. Many can be found in the feedback network.
Ahhh, you are living in the past. Many newer integrated amps are the exact same class as receivers and are as I described. What you are talking about are the "good old days". Like a Marantz 1180DC.
-Chris
anatech said:
Well, this Denon amp does carry a pre-out output, so it's probably likely you can separate them inside.
And I don't think you have to go so much back to find such projects as the one I described.
The English Denon particularly, where this amp comes from, used to release "audiophile" versions, along with Marantz, that had better parts and were modifiable.
Carlos
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