KX project
ZMB,
I think in terms of a configurable audio dsp solution the KXproject could also be a good starting point. It is well known on this forum, you will find much more specific applications of it using a forum search.
It is a driver for EMU10K1 & 2 based soundcards developed independently of creative. By replacing the creative drivers with the KX ones, you are given an interface to control the functionality of EMU DSP chips almost without limit. If particular plugins do not exist, there is an sdk and very helpful community which will help you get there. There is also a plugin which allows the dsp to be used as a VST plugin within some hosts.
The site linked provides a list of soundcards which work with the driver including Live! and audigy cards - which are cheap and readily available. The driver is not open source, but has been developed from information which creative made public, and the sdk and community means that the user generated contributions are open source.
The down side is that the chips resample all audio to 48Khz and not very well. Its actually a reasoanble solution for a consumer level card as it means there are no synching issues with external equipment without the use of external master clocking, but not an audiophile solution. Unfortunately windows only as well. There are a number of soundcards available which utilise onboard dsp.
Ross
ZMB,
I think in terms of a configurable audio dsp solution the KXproject could also be a good starting point. It is well known on this forum, you will find much more specific applications of it using a forum search.
It is a driver for EMU10K1 & 2 based soundcards developed independently of creative. By replacing the creative drivers with the KX ones, you are given an interface to control the functionality of EMU DSP chips almost without limit. If particular plugins do not exist, there is an sdk and very helpful community which will help you get there. There is also a plugin which allows the dsp to be used as a VST plugin within some hosts.
The site linked provides a list of soundcards which work with the driver including Live! and audigy cards - which are cheap and readily available. The driver is not open source, but has been developed from information which creative made public, and the sdk and community means that the user generated contributions are open source.
The down side is that the chips resample all audio to 48Khz and not very well. Its actually a reasoanble solution for a consumer level card as it means there are no synching issues with external equipment without the use of external master clocking, but not an audiophile solution. Unfortunately windows only as well. There are a number of soundcards available which utilise onboard dsp.
Ross
http://www.driverheaven.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=67
Here is a forum for Kxproject.
I'm reading about this.
My feeling has always been that this entire area is highly highly fragmented, and that there is much activity.
But if a clear direction emerged, there would be even more activity.
It is stretching me to fathom the extent of this.
We talk about PC sound cards. My first reaction to that is negative. I'd rather see the analog parts separated from the PC and its noise and its SMPS.
Maybe a way to approach this is to first catalog platforms??
So there are PCs with M$
PCs with Linux
Macs
Are there any DSP boxes like we spoke of?
Then there are some small hard disk recording systems. Usually you can't change the software. They are fixed function appliances.
Then there are the various large boards for recording and live sound.
Any other platforms???
Note: the digidesign Venue board for live sound is running 48 bits deep throughout!
ZMB
Here is a forum for Kxproject.
I'm reading about this.
My feeling has always been that this entire area is highly highly fragmented, and that there is much activity.
But if a clear direction emerged, there would be even more activity.
It is stretching me to fathom the extent of this.
We talk about PC sound cards. My first reaction to that is negative. I'd rather see the analog parts separated from the PC and its noise and its SMPS.
Maybe a way to approach this is to first catalog platforms??
So there are PCs with M$
PCs with Linux
Macs
Are there any DSP boxes like we spoke of?
Then there are some small hard disk recording systems. Usually you can't change the software. They are fixed function appliances.
Then there are the various large boards for recording and live sound.
Any other platforms???
Note: the digidesign Venue board for live sound is running 48 bits deep throughout!
ZMB
Here is something interesting:
Milstead talks about various sound cards. Now, his book is 3 years old.
Some of the sound cards do 24bit, 96khz.
But get this, he mentions a Toolbox XP by digidesign. Sounds like it is an external box, that connects to a PCI card.
I can't find this on digidesigns web page. Probably too old.
But I do find
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=100&itemid=4956
Their Mbox 2 family.
Seems to be a dense little box full of analog I/Os, and all going thru a firewire.
So I guess a PC with their Pro Tools runs it.
Now that does not aleviate my dislike of PC operating systems.
But it does address my concern for quality of analog electronics.
It does seem like digidesign is setting much of the standards for how this is done.
Of course, of digi design sets the standard for this architecture, then other people can come along to replace parts of it.
Someone could replace the Mbox. Some other digital platform could replace the PC.
Once you have some compatibility stadards, then other people will jump in with higher performance and lower cost drop in replacements.
So, I think listing software platforms is probably a good place to start.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html
There is this sort of thing. But I don't know if you can change the software. With digidesign, maybe you can?
Then there are PCs and MACs
Then there are the large boards for recording and live sound. Anything else? Anything like the DSP box we spoke of?
Anything like running a PC on a true real time operating system, not Linux?
Milstead talks about various sound cards. Now, his book is 3 years old.
Some of the sound cards do 24bit, 96khz.
But get this, he mentions a Toolbox XP by digidesign. Sounds like it is an external box, that connects to a PCI card.
I can't find this on digidesigns web page. Probably too old.
But I do find
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=100&itemid=4956
Their Mbox 2 family.
Seems to be a dense little box full of analog I/Os, and all going thru a firewire.
So I guess a PC with their Pro Tools runs it.
Now that does not aleviate my dislike of PC operating systems.
But it does address my concern for quality of analog electronics.
It does seem like digidesign is setting much of the standards for how this is done.
Of course, of digi design sets the standard for this architecture, then other people can come along to replace parts of it.
Someone could replace the Mbox. Some other digital platform could replace the PC.
Once you have some compatibility stadards, then other people will jump in with higher performance and lower cost drop in replacements.
So, I think listing software platforms is probably a good place to start.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html
There is this sort of thing. But I don't know if you can change the software. With digidesign, maybe you can?
Then there are PCs and MACs
Then there are the large boards for recording and live sound. Anything else? Anything like the DSP box we spoke of?
Anything like running a PC on a true real time operating system, not Linux?
They make a whole bunch of Firewire products.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FirewireAudiophile-main.html
Here is a system diagram:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FirewireAudiophile-main.html
Here is a system diagram:
Attachments
There are numerous diy usb dac designs on this forum and else where. Another forum has a thread which compares USB to spdif in terms of Jitter, and I think it concluded that usb was worse but only becuase of the way windows handles usb, not the standard itself. May not be the same issues in Linux. These were measured results, not simply listening. Others have reported that USB sounds better than spdif, but youd have to try out it for yourself as there are just as many people saying the oposite.
Firewire is supposed to be better than USB - there are no DIY solutions as yet, but plenty of comercial products available. On of the cheapest being behringer, but most soundcard manufactures have solutions which have external breakout boxes firewire, usb, spdif and other propriatry means. The ones you have found are high end and expensive, but by no means unique.
Most soundcards have spdif out and as long as theres no nasty resampling imposed, a diy dac connected via optical is a reasonable solution. You may even mod the spdif circuits based on the numerous threads on spdif here. Brands such as RME and Lynx have had favourable audiophile reviews even without using external converters. RME has excellent linux support, this is not true of most manufacturers.
Again I would say the common usage of PCs in audio production ensures that there are professional level products and your budget may be the only limiting factor to achieving the sound level you require with a pc, but if you build a diy external DAC this is not an issue.
You seem to be totally away from open source now? I dont agree that digidesign are relevant to this.
Firewire is supposed to be better than USB - there are no DIY solutions as yet, but plenty of comercial products available. On of the cheapest being behringer, but most soundcard manufactures have solutions which have external breakout boxes firewire, usb, spdif and other propriatry means. The ones you have found are high end and expensive, but by no means unique.
Most soundcards have spdif out and as long as theres no nasty resampling imposed, a diy dac connected via optical is a reasonable solution. You may even mod the spdif circuits based on the numerous threads on spdif here. Brands such as RME and Lynx have had favourable audiophile reviews even without using external converters. RME has excellent linux support, this is not true of most manufacturers.
Again I would say the common usage of PCs in audio production ensures that there are professional level products and your budget may be the only limiting factor to achieving the sound level you require with a pc, but if you build a diy external DAC this is not an issue.
You seem to be totally away from open source now? I dont agree that digidesign are relevant to this.
<<
There are numerous diy usb dac designs on this forum and else where. Another forum has a thread which compares USB to spdif in terms of Jitter, and I think it concluded that usb was worse but only becuase of the way windows handles usb, not the standard itself. May not be the same issues in Linux. These were measured results, not simply listening. Others have reported that USB sounds better than spdif, but youd have to try out it for yourself as there are just as many people saying the oposite.
>>
Jitter on a the USB should not translate to jitter at the ADC. But maybe some of these boxes aren't designed for the best audio possible.
<<
Firewire is supposed to be better than USB - there are no DIY solutions as yet, but plenty of comercial products available. On of the cheapest being behringer, but most soundcard manufactures have solutions which have external breakout boxes firewire, usb, spdif and other propriatry means. The ones you have found are high end and expensive, but by no means unique.
>>
Since Digidesign has established this standard of Firewire and two way conversion to analog, anyone else could make a drop in replacement box. That new box would work with the digidesign software. But it could really maximize the analog performance.
<<
Most soundcards have spdif out and as long as theres no nasty resampling imposed, a diy dac connected via optical is a reasonable solution. You may even mod the spdif circuits based on the numerous threads on spdif here. Brands such as RME and Lynx have had favourable audiophile reviews even without using external converters. RME has excellent linux support, this is not true of most manufacturers.
Again I would say the common usage of PCs in audio production ensures that there are professional level products and your budget may be the only limiting factor to achieving the sound level you require with a pc, but if you build a diy external DAC this is not an issue.
You seem to be totally away from open source now? I dont agree that digidesign are relevant to this.
>>
I want open source. Now I'm trying to understand how the industry is structured. Often, successful open source initiatives play off of existing standards. I think digidesign has been one of the forces in establishing these standards.
Some of their stuff is not completely unaffordable. Someone could make open source Pro Tools plugins.
I notice that digidesign wants their boxes used with PCs that they have approved. I believe there are still latency and real time issues here.
Thanks for all the info.
Am I to conclude that there are not DSP boxes in use, where the user can load software into them? Can I conclude that there are not products or diy initiatives for doing it this way?
ZMB
There are numerous diy usb dac designs on this forum and else where. Another forum has a thread which compares USB to spdif in terms of Jitter, and I think it concluded that usb was worse but only becuase of the way windows handles usb, not the standard itself. May not be the same issues in Linux. These were measured results, not simply listening. Others have reported that USB sounds better than spdif, but youd have to try out it for yourself as there are just as many people saying the oposite.
>>
Jitter on a the USB should not translate to jitter at the ADC. But maybe some of these boxes aren't designed for the best audio possible.
<<
Firewire is supposed to be better than USB - there are no DIY solutions as yet, but plenty of comercial products available. On of the cheapest being behringer, but most soundcard manufactures have solutions which have external breakout boxes firewire, usb, spdif and other propriatry means. The ones you have found are high end and expensive, but by no means unique.
>>
Since Digidesign has established this standard of Firewire and two way conversion to analog, anyone else could make a drop in replacement box. That new box would work with the digidesign software. But it could really maximize the analog performance.
<<
Most soundcards have spdif out and as long as theres no nasty resampling imposed, a diy dac connected via optical is a reasonable solution. You may even mod the spdif circuits based on the numerous threads on spdif here. Brands such as RME and Lynx have had favourable audiophile reviews even without using external converters. RME has excellent linux support, this is not true of most manufacturers.
Again I would say the common usage of PCs in audio production ensures that there are professional level products and your budget may be the only limiting factor to achieving the sound level you require with a pc, but if you build a diy external DAC this is not an issue.
You seem to be totally away from open source now? I dont agree that digidesign are relevant to this.
>>
I want open source. Now I'm trying to understand how the industry is structured. Often, successful open source initiatives play off of existing standards. I think digidesign has been one of the forces in establishing these standards.
Some of their stuff is not completely unaffordable. Someone could make open source Pro Tools plugins.
I notice that digidesign wants their boxes used with PCs that they have approved. I believe there are still latency and real time issues here.
Thanks for all the info.
Am I to conclude that there are not DSP boxes in use, where the user can load software into them? Can I conclude that there are not products or diy initiatives for doing it this way?
ZMB
/drift
Reading the Milstead text.
He endorses the following microphones
Condenser, need 48 volts
Rode NT-1 $200
Rode NT-2
Shure SM-87
Dynamic each $100,
Shure SM-58
Shure SM-57
Shure SM-7 good for drums
Rode web page
http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Home
fascinating instruction manuals. Some can use 24 volts instead of 48? Maybe a switch? Inside they have circuits, lowest possible noise for high impedance. FET input and bipolar outputs.
Shure web page
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/index.htm
drift/
Reading the Milstead text.
He endorses the following microphones
Condenser, need 48 volts
Rode NT-1 $200
Rode NT-2
Shure SM-87
Dynamic each $100,
Shure SM-58
Shure SM-57
Shure SM-7 good for drums
Rode web page
http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Home
fascinating instruction manuals. Some can use 24 volts instead of 48? Maybe a switch? Inside they have circuits, lowest possible noise for high impedance. FET input and bipolar outputs.
Shure web page
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/index.htm
drift/
Outboard DSPs? FWIW, the flag ship digidesign Icon consoles use outboard DSP. So it is part of the protools architecture.
I'm just trying to understand the existing industry standard architectures. I'm starting at the high end.
The picture is too big to post here, so it is at:
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_digital/browse_thread/thread/2d0fd6d3020ee74e?hl=en
Audio Explorations, 10 Google groups. Come join in.
I'm just trying to understand the existing industry standard architectures. I'm starting at the high end.
The picture is too big to post here, so it is at:
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_digital/browse_thread/thread/2d0fd6d3020ee74e?hl=en
Audio Explorations, 10 Google groups. Come join in.
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/pdf/ICON_brochure.pdf
This is their most impressive brochure. It says they use ethenet for the console to talk to the outboard ProTools Accel DSP.
Ethernet would not be my first choice. I assume it is an entirely private ethernet.
They boast that it is faster than MIDI. I'm sure it is.
Have their been digital recording consoles that used MIDI to talk to outboard DSP?
Are there outboard DSPs that get their command and control info via MIDI?
I think these top end systems are a good place to start understanding the landscape from.
Yesterday's top end could be the performance level in your living room.
This is their most impressive brochure. It says they use ethenet for the console to talk to the outboard ProTools Accel DSP.
Ethernet would not be my first choice. I assume it is an entirely private ethernet.
They boast that it is faster than MIDI. I'm sure it is.
Have their been digital recording consoles that used MIDI to talk to outboard DSP?
Are there outboard DSPs that get their command and control info via MIDI?
I think these top end systems are a good place to start understanding the landscape from.
Yesterday's top end could be the performance level in your living room.
I read about the data acquisition units for the digidesgin system. Some are 96ksamples/sec. But they have ones that are 192k.
Some have analog built in. But you can also connect external analog boxes. You can also buy units that don't have any internal analog.
This entire DSP unit can be remote located, far from the console. The console communicates via ethernet.
Page 28 of the brochure is revelatory.
It sounds like this vast, complex and costly system still has a host computer which is a PC or a Mac?
Sounds like there are digidesign DSP PCI cards that plug into it. There is also an expansion chasiss that can take up to 6 more DSP cards. They say that using these cards prevents the PC from being loaded down with such processing.
All very very curious to me.
Some have analog built in. But you can also connect external analog boxes. You can also buy units that don't have any internal analog.
This entire DSP unit can be remote located, far from the console. The console communicates via ethernet.
Page 28 of the brochure is revelatory.
It sounds like this vast, complex and costly system still has a host computer which is a PC or a Mac?
Sounds like there are digidesign DSP PCI cards that plug into it. There is also an expansion chasiss that can take up to 6 more DSP cards. They say that using these cards prevents the PC from being loaded down with such processing.
All very very curious to me.
I would say jitter added by USB would remain in the signal unless compensated for. Jitter would be added during ADC/DAC conversion and through USB transmission in the same way spdif transmission causes jitter, at least the effect of, that is present in the audible/recorded signal. Firewire will do the same to some degree as well.
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
I cant keep up with you! I know rock all about microphones - dont even know what you want them for in your dsp box. If its for measurement there are diy measurement mics, good enough for linkwitz. But you know you can get a good microphone if you need one. Milstead doesnt seem to be an advocate of open source.
Ross
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
I cant keep up with you! I know rock all about microphones - dont even know what you want them for in your dsp box. If its for measurement there are diy measurement mics, good enough for linkwitz. But you know you can get a good microphone if you need one. Milstead doesnt seem to be an advocate of open source.
Ross
Digidesign
Because of the prominence of this firm, I am exploring their entire
product line.
Here is the entry level system for the sound processing used in their large recording studio systems.
It has a DSP board of the PCI type, and a box of software of their
ProTools HD family.
Here is the pain, this entry level product costs $8k.
The systems can be expanded, even using an expansion chassis, to have many of these DSP boards.
It can do 192ksamples/sec, and 24 bits. Internally it is all 48 bits.
In my home, I have no use for a simultaneous realtime mix down of 64 channels, or for 160 simulataneous I/Os.
However, I do believe that it will be possible to come up with an
affordable home recoding, editing, and playback system. And it may well be compatible with digidesign. Certainly, the sound quality should not be less.
I also believe that it can all be steered to Open Source and Open
Architecture.
Also, if there are standards in use that are better than digidesign, those should be used.
ZMB
Cross posted here:
http://groups.google.com/group/audi...98d65ca4d0e/e747e65984c5680b#e747e65984c5680b
Audio Explorations, now 14 groups. Come and join in.
Because of the prominence of this firm, I am exploring their entire
product line.
Here is the entry level system for the sound processing used in their large recording studio systems.
It has a DSP board of the PCI type, and a box of software of their
ProTools HD family.
Here is the pain, this entry level product costs $8k.
The systems can be expanded, even using an expansion chassis, to have many of these DSP boards.
It can do 192ksamples/sec, and 24 bits. Internally it is all 48 bits.
In my home, I have no use for a simultaneous realtime mix down of 64 channels, or for 160 simulataneous I/Os.
However, I do believe that it will be possible to come up with an
affordable home recoding, editing, and playback system. And it may well be compatible with digidesign. Certainly, the sound quality should not be less.
I also believe that it can all be steered to Open Source and Open
Architecture.
Also, if there are standards in use that are better than digidesign, those should be used.
ZMB
Cross posted here:
http://groups.google.com/group/audi...98d65ca4d0e/e747e65984c5680b#e747e65984c5680b
Audio Explorations, now 14 groups. Come and join in.
Here is a picture of what $8K buys. They say this is a PCI card. But to me, this does not look like it has the right card edge connectors on it. Maybe I'm out of date on this.
Notice the big DB connectors. Not sure if those go outside of the PC, or probably those go to the other boards when you expand.
A great deal of engineering work has gone into all these connection and data transmission schemes.
Notice the big DB connectors. Not sure if those go outside of the PC, or probably those go to the other boards when you expand.
A great deal of engineering work has gone into all these connection and data transmission schemes.
Attachments
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=26&langid=100&mkt=HD
This is the official list of providers of ProTools HD plugins.
This is the official list of providers of ProTools HD plugins.
I looked at a recording studio control board some years ago in a retail store.
It might have been the entry level of Digidesign D-command.
Actually, I laughed at it in the store, because of the motorized faders. They move themselves to follow the computer's presets from stored sessions.
I thought it was silly.
I believe that such a system is done without a real understanding of computer interfaces, and how to best design them.
I think the biggest of the digidesign systems are a mixture of progressive thinking, and also regressive thinking. YMMV.
I believe it is possible to think futher forward than where digidesign is currently at with their largest systems.
I see other things I don't like about their system designs too.
It might have been the entry level of Digidesign D-command.
Actually, I laughed at it in the store, because of the motorized faders. They move themselves to follow the computer's presets from stored sessions.
I thought it was silly.
I believe that such a system is done without a real understanding of computer interfaces, and how to best design them.
I think the biggest of the digidesign systems are a mixture of progressive thinking, and also regressive thinking. YMMV.
I believe it is possible to think futher forward than where digidesign is currently at with their largest systems.
I see other things I don't like about their system designs too.
I have a new thread. You are all invited.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87252
<<
Firewire = iLink = IEEE1394 is primarily an Apple technology.
>>
I hadn't known that.
I am interested in microphones, for recording and measurement. Which microphones are good for measurement?
These condensor mics that use 48v have their own preamps built in. The older designs used the metal enveloped nuvister tubes.
It seems like thes mics still put out a low level signal? Seems like they should just go directly to line level. Maybe they are concerned about overdriving the circuits, when no limiting is imposed?
Don't really know why they don't go directly to line level.
Milstead does not advocate for open source. Know any books that do?
<<
I would say jitter added by USB would remain in the signal unless compensated for. Jitter would be added during ADC/DAC conversion and through USB transmission in the same way spdif transmission causes jitter, at least the effect of, that is present in the audible/recorded signal. Firewire will do the same to some degree as well.
>>
It is not clear to me why USB jitter would effect sound quality. Buffering should be able to deal with it.
<<
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
>>
Because digidesign is the last word, I am putting in some time to try and understand it.
Digidesign software is not open source. But they say there are lots of third party providers of plug ins. Maybe some of them are, or could be open source? Maybe not. Maybe it is locked up by license.
Thing is, if you can figure out how to make it compatible, you can do it, whether they approve or not.
Remember how the PC industry developed in the 1980s.
<<
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
>>
I have looked at these things, and will continue to. There are so many things that it is hard for me to differentiate.
Digidesign offers a comprehensive solution, for recording, and now for live sound too.
It wasn't made by patching pieces together. So I want to understand it more, first. I am still concerned with the extent to which PCs and their operating systems can server as reliable real time DSPs. I want to understand the limits of this. Once I understand all the issues, then I can look at what compromises could be.
Right now, it is not clear to me that it is necessary to settle for less in terms of sound quality, or reliable real time DSP, than what DigiDesign offers.
I'm no fan of giant control boards. But I do thing the core signal handling, digital and analog, should be as good as possible.
Digidesign is 48 bits deep. Their stuff is also very modular and remote control oriented. I approve of this totally. This is a big advance for live sound, remote control preamps, eq, and limiting.
Ross, I will look at your new links.
ZMB
Come visit Audio Explorations. Now 14 groups.
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_introduction_links?lnk=li&hl=en
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87252
<<
Firewire = iLink = IEEE1394 is primarily an Apple technology.
>>
I hadn't known that.
I am interested in microphones, for recording and measurement. Which microphones are good for measurement?
These condensor mics that use 48v have their own preamps built in. The older designs used the metal enveloped nuvister tubes.
It seems like thes mics still put out a low level signal? Seems like they should just go directly to line level. Maybe they are concerned about overdriving the circuits, when no limiting is imposed?
Don't really know why they don't go directly to line level.
Milstead does not advocate for open source. Know any books that do?
<<
I would say jitter added by USB would remain in the signal unless compensated for. Jitter would be added during ADC/DAC conversion and through USB transmission in the same way spdif transmission causes jitter, at least the effect of, that is present in the audible/recorded signal. Firewire will do the same to some degree as well.
>>
It is not clear to me why USB jitter would effect sound quality. Buffering should be able to deal with it.
<<
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
>>
Because digidesign is the last word, I am putting in some time to try and understand it.
Digidesign software is not open source. But they say there are lots of third party providers of plug ins. Maybe some of them are, or could be open source? Maybe not. Maybe it is locked up by license.
Thing is, if you can figure out how to make it compatible, you can do it, whether they approve or not.
Remember how the PC industry developed in the 1980s.
<<
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
>>
I have looked at these things, and will continue to. There are so many things that it is hard for me to differentiate.
Digidesign offers a comprehensive solution, for recording, and now for live sound too.
It wasn't made by patching pieces together. So I want to understand it more, first. I am still concerned with the extent to which PCs and their operating systems can server as reliable real time DSPs. I want to understand the limits of this. Once I understand all the issues, then I can look at what compromises could be.
Right now, it is not clear to me that it is necessary to settle for less in terms of sound quality, or reliable real time DSP, than what DigiDesign offers.
I'm no fan of giant control boards. But I do thing the core signal handling, digital and analog, should be as good as possible.
Digidesign is 48 bits deep. Their stuff is also very modular and remote control oriented. I approve of this totally. This is a big advance for live sound, remote control preamps, eq, and limiting.
Ross, I will look at your new links.
ZMB
Come visit Audio Explorations. Now 14 groups.
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_introduction_links?lnk=li&hl=en
I mentioned that GP2X video game controller. It would be good for controlling a box which does not have a display.
But if you are controlling a PC, with its bigger display, then there are other things. Videonics maybe? They a video editing system which came with a really nice control surface. It would work really well with the select, then adjust method of doing computer based controls.
But if you are controlling a PC, with its bigger display, then there are other things. Videonics maybe? They a video editing system which came with a really nice control surface. It would work really well with the select, then adjust method of doing computer based controls.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.