Hello everybody!
This probably is my first post in the Loudspeakers area, so be nice
I'm not an expert.
The question is: I'd like to make an Onken bass cabinet with Eminence or Ciare Speakers.
1) What parameters should I look for?
2) Is there an Eminence that you have tried or can point me at?
3) Is the popular xls "Onken Calculator" right? Or do I'm getting wrong results?
4) Some other European-available CHEAP drivers?
I calculated with the mentioned spreadsheet an Onken with a Eminence Beta12, it gave me a nice 230L cabinet tuned to about 30Hz, I made drawings for it but... what about the Xmax at 0.8mm?????????
A friend of mine said that with 10W I will destroy the cone. Should I go for the Alpha 10 that has similar results when put in the mentioned xls?
Can someone help me? Thanks in advance!
This probably is my first post in the Loudspeakers area, so be nice
I'm not an expert.The question is: I'd like to make an Onken bass cabinet with Eminence or Ciare Speakers.
1) What parameters should I look for?
2) Is there an Eminence that you have tried or can point me at?
3) Is the popular xls "Onken Calculator" right? Or do I'm getting wrong results?
4) Some other European-available CHEAP drivers?
I calculated with the mentioned spreadsheet an Onken with a Eminence Beta12, it gave me a nice 230L cabinet tuned to about 30Hz, I made drawings for it but... what about the Xmax at 0.8mm?????????
A friend of mine said that with 10W I will destroy the cone. Should I go for the Alpha 10 that has similar results when put in the mentioned xls?Can someone help me? Thanks in advance!
I'm not an expert, but I heard Onken allignment helps with high efficiency woofers, to let them go down in the frequency range. Also I've read they have faster bass. I don't like bass reflex bass, for example, in fact now I'm using sealed boxes speakers.
Is this true or there's something I should know about Onkens?
Is this true or there's something I should know about Onkens?
Greets!
There's nothing magical about the Onken, so in theory any driver suitable for a vented alignment will work, but the reality is that it needs specs that don't make the vents excessively long. FWIW, I use ~24" (~61 cm) long as the practical limit. Note that you can use fewer vents and/or as little as 75% of Sd to reduce length.
Not sure which calculator you're referring to, but using published specs, n = 6.34, (8) vents with Sdv = Sd, my calculator yields ~195.996 L net and ~217.179 L including the vents, with a ~38.25 Hz F3/37.56 Hz Fb.
WRT Xmax, down low, more is better, so 0.8 mm isn't sufficient unless it's being used in a large compression loaded horn or limited BW bandpass alignment. I recommend at least ~6 mm, but if close by neighbors keeps you from playing at higher SPL, you can get by with as little as 3 mm. Still, best to have too much than be caught short........
Since I live down in NASCAR Country, I'm not all that familiar with what's available in Europe.
GM
There's nothing magical about the Onken, so in theory any driver suitable for a vented alignment will work, but the reality is that it needs specs that don't make the vents excessively long. FWIW, I use ~24" (~61 cm) long as the practical limit. Note that you can use fewer vents and/or as little as 75% of Sd to reduce length.
Not sure which calculator you're referring to, but using published specs, n = 6.34, (8) vents with Sdv = Sd, my calculator yields ~195.996 L net and ~217.179 L including the vents, with a ~38.25 Hz F3/37.56 Hz Fb.
WRT Xmax, down low, more is better, so 0.8 mm isn't sufficient unless it's being used in a large compression loaded horn or limited BW bandpass alignment. I recommend at least ~6 mm, but if close by neighbors keeps you from playing at higher SPL, you can get by with as little as 3 mm. Still, best to have too much than be caught short........
Since I live down in NASCAR Country, I'm not all that familiar with what's available in Europe.
GM
Thank you,
thank you very much for your kind reply. So I have to get something with more Xmax. Is there a 10, 12" or maybe a 15" (size is an issue, I'd like to have a small enclosure even sacrificing some extension) from Eminence that you can point me at?
The calculator is here: http://melhuish.org/audio/download/ONKEN_CALC.xls
thank you very much for your kind reply. So I have to get something with more Xmax. Is there a 10, 12" or maybe a 15" (size is an issue, I'd like to have a small enclosure even sacrificing some extension) from Eminence that you can point me at?
The calculator is here: http://melhuish.org/audio/download/ONKEN_CALC.xls
Greets!
You're welcome!
Cyr-Marc makes some assumptions I don't agree with, but the math's otherwise correct. Since the alignment you got wasn't realistic with this driver per se, I assume it's due to you not changing some of the driver specs inputs. He apparently designed it for his way of measuring drivers rather than just inputting T/S specs, so not very user friendly and odds are the average DIYer won't get an accurate calc IMO.
Can't really recommend any driver since you haven't told us what level of performance you want, i.e. LF extension, HF XO point/slope, power handling, etc., what it will XO to, music or HT app, or any size limitations.
GM
You're welcome!
Cyr-Marc makes some assumptions I don't agree with, but the math's otherwise correct. Since the alignment you got wasn't realistic with this driver per se, I assume it's due to you not changing some of the driver specs inputs. He apparently designed it for his way of measuring drivers rather than just inputting T/S specs, so not very user friendly and odds are the average DIYer won't get an accurate calc IMO.
Can't really recommend any driver since you haven't told us what level of performance you want, i.e. LF extension, HF XO point/slope, power handling, etc., what it will XO to, music or HT app, or any size limitations.
GM
Hello!
Thank you very much.
So instead of using that calc-sheet, should I use standard bass reflex design programs and keep the port area equal the Sd of the cone? I've heard of many people doing this way.
Speaking of my goals, I want something at least 98dB efficient, from 40Hz (flat) to 800Hz (30Hz would be great). It will be powered from a 10-20W tube amp, will play rock (not metal), jazz, blues... it will have horns from 800Hz up. And, of course, cheap is better, and smaller is better. 200 liters are the limit, I can go tall anyway I want, but not larger than 60x60cm base. If it has Eminence woofer it would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Thank you very much.
So instead of using that calc-sheet, should I use standard bass reflex design programs and keep the port area equal the Sd of the cone? I've heard of many people doing this way.
Speaking of my goals, I want something at least 98dB efficient, from 40Hz (flat) to 800Hz (30Hz would be great). It will be powered from a 10-20W tube amp, will play rock (not metal), jazz, blues... it will have horns from 800Hz up. And, of course, cheap is better, and smaller is better. 200 liters are the limit, I can go tall anyway I want, but not larger than 60x60cm base. If it has Eminence woofer it would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Greets!
You're welcome! BTW, nice website!
Yes, you can do that if it allows you to choose the number of vents since the extra friction of multiple vents will affect their length.
Hmm, 98 dB/40 Hz eff.......this will require corner loading. That, or a bigger cab up against a wall. Anyway, the Kappa 15" is the only Eminence that comes to mind that will meet these requirements if corner loaded, though the published plot shows a notch filter is required up high. To get to 30 Hz will require corner loading and a bigger cab.
GM
You're welcome! BTW, nice website!
Yes, you can do that if it allows you to choose the number of vents since the extra friction of multiple vents will affect their length.
Hmm, 98 dB/40 Hz eff.......this will require corner loading. That, or a bigger cab up against a wall. Anyway, the Kappa 15" is the only Eminence that comes to mind that will meet these requirements if corner loaded, though the published plot shows a notch filter is required up high. To get to 30 Hz will require corner loading and a bigger cab.
GM
Greets!
You're welcome!
In smaller sizes, the Onken's vents will be way too long for good performance to 800 Hz, so you would have to settle for a single efficient vent. Dropping back to ~4 ft^3 yields a half space 40 Hz F3 around 95 dB/w/m, so with some room gain may be acceptable to you, but only one way to know for sure.
GM
You're welcome!
In smaller sizes, the Onken's vents will be way too long for good performance to 800 Hz, so you would have to settle for a single efficient vent. Dropping back to ~4 ft^3 yields a half space 40 Hz F3 around 95 dB/w/m, so with some room gain may be acceptable to you, but only one way to know for sure.
GM
I have been told on using Eminence Kappa 12 in an Onken.
It works wonderfully in the Onken Calculator but... what's that 60Hz box cutoff???? What I'm going to do about that???
I'm gonna try Delta Pro 15, Delta 12, DeltaLite 2512, Delta 12LF, Kappa Pro 15 and also Beyma 12BR100.
And what about this thing: I've seen a strange kind of loading for the Altec 416, IIRC by Audio Tekne, that uses a single, BIG hole in the back of the box (the box is a cube). I think that the hole has the same Sd of the woofer... so it's a form of Onken isn't it?
Drawings
Front of the speaker
Rear
Thanks to my friends at www.audiofaidate.it
It works wonderfully in the Onken Calculator but... what's that 60Hz box cutoff????
What I'm going to do about that???I'm gonna try Delta Pro 15, Delta 12, DeltaLite 2512, Delta 12LF, Kappa Pro 15 and also Beyma 12BR100.
And what about this thing: I've seen a strange kind of loading for the Altec 416, IIRC by Audio Tekne, that uses a single, BIG hole in the back of the box (the box is a cube). I think that the hole has the same Sd of the woofer... so it's a form of Onken isn't it?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Drawings
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Front of the speaker
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rear
Thanks to my friends at www.audiofaidate.it
Giaime said:
Greets!
You're kidding, right? Which one did I recommend?
I'm saying that smaller Onken cab sizes typically require the vents to be too long for a ~smooth mids response, so either fewer, smaller vents need to be used, or just a single one has a vent speed < ~5% mach.
Don't know, what does one of the on-line converters say?
I have been told on using Eminence Kappa 12 in an Onken.
It works wonderfully in the Onken Calculator but... what's that 60Hz box cutoff????
I'm gonna try Delta Pro 15, Delta 12, DeltaLite 2512, Delta 12LF, Kappa Pro 15 and also Beyma 12BR100.
And what about this thing: I've seen a strange kind of loading for the Altec 416, IIRC by Audio Tekne, that uses a single, BIG hole in the back of the box (the box is a cube). I think that the hole has the same Sd of the woofer... so it's a form of Onken isn't it?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Drawings
Nothing that I know of and meet your performance requirements.
OK.
The drawing is unreadable, but from the pics I can say that it will be tuned very high, maybe as high as 150 Hz.
GM
Thank you very much GM, you're great.
I've been told to use the "Petite Onken" drawings, and just put in an Eminence Kappa 12.
Here's the drawings:
http://ndaviden.club.fr/plancaisse/onken-414.html
What do you think about it? I don't need absolutely extreme SPL, I prefer more bass extension instead of SLP.
I've been told to use the "Petite Onken" drawings, and just put in an Eminence Kappa 12.
Here's the drawings:
http://ndaviden.club.fr/plancaisse/onken-414.html
What do you think about it? I don't need absolutely extreme SPL, I prefer more bass extension instead of SLP.
Giaime said:
Greets!
You're welcome!
You've apparently changed your performance goals somewhat, but assuming my sim is reasonably accurate, this combo looks OK if significant series resistance and stuffing is used to flatten it, though I believe you would choose my recommendation in a comparison.
GM
This tread is 10 years old!
However, if Giaime reads, you completed construction of petite onken with kappa 12a? Or any other forum member constructed petite onken with modern/cheap woofer? What is your sound impression?
Question to GM, If i build Petite Onken with Kappa 12a and use enough series r
what should be
1. series r value
2. how much stuffing
3. what will be the efficiency
4. what should be the crossover point for 2 way system
Thank in advance
However, if Giaime reads, you completed construction of petite onken with kappa 12a? Or any other forum member constructed petite onken with modern/cheap woofer? What is your sound impression?
Question to GM, If i build Petite Onken with Kappa 12a and use enough series r
what should be
1. series r value
2. how much stuffing
3. what will be the efficiency
4. what should be the crossover point for 2 way system
Thank in advance
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