yes,I searched 
victims...or patients : pair of old Philips AD12100/H8
culprits : hardened surround (cloth probably threated with something bitumen-like ) and somewhat soft whizzers
question one: what can I use to soften surrounds , besides burning in ...... just because they're just sleeping several yrs ;
question two:
what's better for whizzer - diluted PVA wood glue (white one,fer sure) or Dammar ?
I have plenty xperience with wood glue in that purposes,but just recently I found Dammar locally ,and didn't bought and tried it yet......
TIA for any answer......OT post and trolling more than wellcome
victims...or patients : pair of old Philips AD12100/H8
culprits : hardened surround (cloth probably threated with something bitumen-like ) and somewhat soft whizzers
question one: what can I use to soften surrounds , besides burning in
...... just because they're just sleeping several yrs ;question two:
what's better for whizzer - diluted PVA wood glue (white one,fer sure) or Dammar ?
I have plenty xperience with wood glue in that purposes,but just recently I found Dammar locally ,and didn't bought and tried it yet......
TIA for any answer......OT post and trolling more than wellcome
Hi
a friend once managed to softened the cloth surrounds of his old fullrangers with fine oil (like sewing machine oil). Use a Q-Tip or cotton pad and carefully bring the oil on the surrounds and check if it soaked in, if so be happy! if not it probably wont help
He then put the speakers in his oven at like 50°C, so the oil gets even more fluid and spreads evenly throu the cloth...
Then let them cool down and play some bass heavy rock music, really ******* loud -- the speakers will be done when your neightbours ring at the door...
No idea about the dammar question, I only remember that he sometimes found it helpfull to add a layer of tissue paper to fix soft the whizzers, I'd use cheap wallpaper paste, 'cause it's none destructive -- can easily be removed with water...
cheers,
LC
BTW.
How's the Alep J-X doing?
edit: WOW! the 4 letter word is automatically replaced with **** -- that's america!!!
a friend once managed to softened the cloth surrounds of his old fullrangers with fine oil (like sewing machine oil). Use a Q-Tip or cotton pad and carefully bring the oil on the surrounds and check if it soaked in, if so be happy! if not it probably wont help
He then put the speakers in his oven at like 50°C, so the oil gets even more fluid and spreads evenly throu the cloth...
Then let them cool down and play some bass heavy rock music, really ******* loud -- the speakers will be done when your neightbours ring at the door...
No idea about the dammar question, I only remember that he sometimes found it helpfull to add a layer of tissue paper to fix soft the whizzers, I'd use cheap wallpaper paste, 'cause it's none destructive -- can easily be removed with water...
cheers,
LC
BTW.
How's the Alep J-X doing?
edit: WOW! the 4 letter word is automatically replaced with **** -- that's america!!!
Hey Cal,
Uhhh, sorry!
otherwise I'm absolutely fine with that politics, the ***** stick out more than any word could
@ Frank, I think it depends on the kinda oil -- maybe on the clue thou, then Choky mightget into trouble -- but my friends speakers are still in one peace and working well, after more than a year.
cheers
LC
Uhhh, sorry!
otherwise I'm absolutely fine with that politics, the ***** stick out more than any word could
@ Frank, I think it depends on the kinda oil -- maybe on the clue thou, then Choky mightget into trouble
-- but my friends speakers are still in one peace and working well, after more than a year.cheers
LC
lovechild said:Hey Cal,
Uhhh, sorry!
otherwise I'm absolutely fine with that politics, the ***** stick out more than any word could
@ Frank, I think it depends on the kinda oil -- maybe on the clue thou, then Choky mightget into trouble
cheers
LC
maybe Olive oil............but that's little scary.........even for me
now I have Idea.......I'll ask BudP to look here
"I have a cunnin' plan".........
Zen,
Yikes!
How stiff is stiff?
If you have Elmers white wood glue that is almost good enough for a re coat, after you remove the gunk that is there now. Poly Viny Acrylic is what you really really want and it is available whirled wide.
When I worked at Nestorovic's home/lab/speaker factory, we coated all of the paper cone drivers and foam surrounds with the stuff. True PVA never hardens, is always slightly tacky and flexible. It should be quite useful for maybe the back side of the whizzer, because, of course, you want to EnABL the front.....
I do think I would try to remove what is there now, without disturbing the fabric too much. Maybe try 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol to see if that will loosen its grip? Would hate to try anything more corrosive, but I would be really surprised to see you get this old unknown chemical back to original form.
Maybe a new foam surround..... ducking and running here....
Bud
Yikes!
How stiff is stiff?
If you have Elmers white wood glue that is almost good enough for a re coat, after you remove the gunk that is there now. Poly Viny Acrylic is what you really really want and it is available whirled wide.
When I worked at Nestorovic's home/lab/speaker factory, we coated all of the paper cone drivers and foam surrounds with the stuff. True PVA never hardens, is always slightly tacky and flexible. It should be quite useful for maybe the back side of the whizzer, because, of course, you want to EnABL the front.....
I do think I would try to remove what is there now, without disturbing the fabric too much. Maybe try 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol to see if that will loosen its grip? Would hate to try anything more corrosive, but I would be really surprised to see you get this old unknown chemical back to original form.
Maybe a new foam surround..... ducking and running here....
Bud
BudP said:
hey man...tnx to that..........
so -you worked with old Mile .......Mioljub Nestorovic,legend of Yu audio electronics........
I still have letter from him,hand written, where he gives me few tips for his "20W Lab amp" ,which he made for (lemme translate) "Phonetic and Speech Pathology Institute" in Belgrade........
I have Xerox of entire script for that project,along with OPT winding sheet............
Kudos to him
I'll try with alcohol for starters........
what you say for Dammar thingie?
and-can I bug you for EnABLE pattern when ..........I really need it for more than one pair of spks.........various.......
btw-part of day I spent listening one AD1265/M4.............boy......these boyz really were engineers........12" with soul of nice tweet........I can't wait to hear what some tweeks will do for that already unique driver.........
edit:
I really misstracked thinkin' about old man Mile....
I can make tomorrow few pic of real stuff......I'll not hesitate to lay few strokes of PVA on cone,but origigi thing on surround was (I think) semi-sticky kind of tar - bitumen looking goo........or it was just black rubber -cement
it's pretty hard talking about things with ,say, local names ........cement is completelly different thing in my country than in West;
hehe- rubber and cement for us are two totally exclusive things......
anyway.......
PVA whitie is ordinary wood glue ? diluted with water for our purposes?
and......rubber cement is mebbe Tip-Top glue for bike tyres ?
Zen,
The Elmer's is not quite as flexible as PVA. You should look around in chemical supply houses maybe. Small amounts can be gotten from Parts Express, as glue for attaching cone plus surround and spider to the metal basket. You will likely need more than those small bottles and I do not know what sort of labor you would have to perform to get it through customs. I do not know what Dammar is so I cannot comment on it.
I would love to have the documents you speak of. Mioljub once told me that my difficulty with hearing words from speakers was a well known problem in his homeland and that he had studied the problem. Did not think there was any help for me except the EnABL process, which he knew about and did not want to use.
He was afraid there would be great legal turmoil caused by this knowledge and would not even allow Ned, his son, to provide the mathematical models I still so badly need. Ned had just finished with studying boundary layer physics, I believe at Stanford, not certain. He was very excited when he discovered what I was doing and taught me all I know about boundary layers.
Truly intelligent and refined people, and Bebe still looked like her famous painting the last time I saw her.
I will be happy to provide patterns for you, though if you have Corel Draw, of any vintage, that would help and if you or a friend has Auto Cad I have a lisp routine that will generate a conic section with the blocks in the proper place, from just four simple measurements, but it needs Auto Cad to run.
Bud
The Elmer's is not quite as flexible as PVA. You should look around in chemical supply houses maybe. Small amounts can be gotten from Parts Express, as glue for attaching cone plus surround and spider to the metal basket. You will likely need more than those small bottles and I do not know what sort of labor you would have to perform to get it through customs. I do not know what Dammar is so I cannot comment on it.
I would love to have the documents you speak of. Mioljub once told me that my difficulty with hearing words from speakers was a well known problem in his homeland and that he had studied the problem. Did not think there was any help for me except the EnABL process, which he knew about and did not want to use.
He was afraid there would be great legal turmoil caused by this knowledge and would not even allow Ned, his son, to provide the mathematical models I still so badly need. Ned had just finished with studying boundary layer physics, I believe at Stanford, not certain. He was very excited when he discovered what I was doing and taught me all I know about boundary layers.
Truly intelligent and refined people, and Bebe still looked like her famous painting the last time I saw her.
I will be happy to provide patterns for you, though if you have Corel Draw, of any vintage, that would help and if you or a friend has Auto Cad I have a lisp routine that will generate a conic section with the blocks in the proper place, from just four simple measurements, but it needs Auto Cad to run.
Bud
Zen Mod,
I have termed the condition "Stiff Surround Syndrome" -- i have many, many drivers i have been looking for a cure for. No success yet and i have tried all sorts of solvents -- most effective (and that not much) has been acetone.
I did have a trick suggested that i still have to try (waiting for the weather to warm up as this needs to be done outside or under a fume hood). The trick is to mix the solvent with an oil... the solvent dissolves the gunk and then the oil carries it away. Messy i'm told.
As to the whizzer, i have found that damar works well to stiffen a whizzer -- the mamboni treatment -- off which i have seen a number of variations in vintage drivers -- looks to be a good idea too.
The best PVA i have found for cones is puzzlecoat -- the brand i use now is called ModPodge. I prefer the shiny finish.
<http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html>
These drivers have damarred whizzer, puzzlecoated cones, and Douglas Fir FE167 phase plugs died blue with food colouring.
dave
I have termed the condition "Stiff Surround Syndrome" -- i have many, many drivers i have been looking for a cure for. No success yet and i have tried all sorts of solvents -- most effective (and that not much) has been acetone.
I did have a trick suggested that i still have to try (waiting for the weather to warm up as this needs to be done outside or under a fume hood). The trick is to mix the solvent with an oil... the solvent dissolves the gunk and then the oil carries it away. Messy i'm told.
As to the whizzer, i have found that damar works well to stiffen a whizzer -- the mamboni treatment -- off which i have seen a number of variations in vintage drivers -- looks to be a good idea too.
The best PVA i have found for cones is puzzlecoat -- the brand i use now is called ModPodge. I prefer the shiny finish.
<http://www.t-linespeakers.org/design/tweeks.html>
These drivers have damarred whizzer, puzzlecoated cones, and Douglas Fir FE167 phase plugs died blue with food colouring.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
boyz
tnx for all answers
I'll be back later,hopefully with some pics ;
and with more questions ........
P10 - I know this (your page ) more than well
Cal's pic is worth more than 1000 words....... exact chemical name (proper term?) is exactly what I need ....bingo.....I'll search for that solvent locally
EDIT:
P10.......I still owe you Fried's pics........as soon I manage them from happy user...........
tnx for all answers
I'll be back later,hopefully with some pics ;
and with more questions ........
P10 - I know this (your page ) more than well
Cal's pic is worth more than 1000 words....... exact chemical name (proper term?) is exactly what I need
....bingo.....I'll search for that solvent locallyEDIT:
P10.......I still owe you Fried's pics........as soon I manage them from happy user...........
BudP said:
that little book (script,project ,whatever ) is on my native ;
besides complete schmtc for amp, winding sheet for OPT there are also some graphs where Old Man compare various output configurations ......vs. damping factor,distortions etc.
tell me what you need,besides drawings and I'll try to translate (me Tarzan,you Jane) that for you
ZM Weissmueller
ps. Corell Draw and CAD is not problem
uff
beeeezzzzzzyyy day.... just didn't manage to make few pics of my Philips beauties........
anyway - one more question.......
there is thing called "bitulit" in my country.
it's liquid tar , used as primer in construction work ,before applying melted tar or whatever named is.......
I know fer sure that few ppl around used "bitulit" for surround treating ;
one thing is- that dried goo on Philips surrounds looks exactly as sorta tar substance ; is it out of mind thinking that few tiny layers of "bitulit" on these surrounds can bring them to life.......dissolving old goo ?
anyway-what's exactly that semi-sticky goo on nice Altec and JBL and other pro driver surrounds?
beeeezzzzzzyyy day.... just didn't manage to make few pics of my Philips beauties........
anyway - one more question.......
there is thing called "bitulit" in my country.
it's liquid tar , used as primer in construction work ,before applying melted tar or whatever named is.......
I know fer sure that few ppl around used "bitulit" for surround treating ;
one thing is- that dried goo on Philips surrounds looks exactly as sorta tar substance ; is it out of mind thinking that few tiny layers of "bitulit" on these surrounds can bring them to life.......dissolving old goo ?
anyway-what's exactly that semi-sticky goo on nice Altec and JBL and other pro driver surrounds?
My concern with that is that you have to ensure the solvent used is the same as the original. In the roofing business that is what we call resaturating. In essence, all that has happened is the original solvents have gassed-off leaving you with a stiffer goo. Unfortunately, I have never found the surround smelled like asphalt or coal tar and therefore would be a little hesitant using a cut back version of those. See if you can find the butyl cellosolve as I have not had any problems with that stuff until it comes in contact with a foam surround. It wasn't available locally so I ordered it from the States.
I am hoping someone will look in that knows the best solution. Hate to steer you in the wrong direction. I'm a little more brave with my stuff than someone elses.
I am hoping someone will look in that knows the best solution. Hate to steer you in the wrong direction. I'm a little more brave with my stuff than someone elses.
Cal Weldon said:...................... See if you can find the butyl cellosolve as I have not had any problems with that stuff until it comes in contact with a foam surround. It wasn't available locally so I ordered it from the States.
...................................
I know few ppl in chemistry related jobs......so I hope that with their help I'll find adequate solvent............your pic gives me 'nuff info,I think........
anyway- do you know what's that original sticky drek ,seen on some origigi woofs.....?
two pics as present for you..........
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