nickmckinney said:
Yeah, its from a time when I thought it couldnt be big enough
but ofcourse you are right that poleplates and additional chassis plate will act like a very flat box, but looking at the bright side, there will be no edges or rough surface but only smooth like babys bottom I understood that the new Dipole15 would be improved with the latest AE technology
skorpion said:tinitus,
Impressive, I must say. I suppose you have a good feel what it will sound like. And no, there will be no better way than OB/IB for good bass only passive is a bit harder.
/Erling
Yes thanks, this driver makes me feel good, so far
no seriously, the cone is made with polyurethane glue which I have experienced to have very nice sound qualities ... furthermore its with a "flower-pattern" which should be very good too ... so what can go wrong 
honestly, I suppose I just like a challenge I also have all neo magnets fore the ribbons, so I guess there is no turning back now
I once made a fullrange 2way dipole ribbon, much like Apogee
Only that the bass ribbon was only attached at top and bottom, man could that one move
it was flawed and often out of controll, but I tell you it had something VERY special within its limitsLater I built a bass ribbon which was only attached at the sides and it wasnt nearly as good
I also tried the normal route with attachment all way round the ribbon and it was bloddy awfull, and suppose its because it wasnt a ribbon no more, but turning into a magnestat
Cant forget the times when Midoris violin could make me cry ... with that early fullrange ribbon she could
I only hope that this new project will give me some of that magic
Hi tinitus,
Please come back and report on the ribbon and midrange progress. This is kind of a once-in-a lifetime project, I suppose ! Very interesting.
I do not know if you really need advice from outside. I can assure that within its limits the A&D R1524 is a very good and fast unit that won't miss out much on the lowest bass even in the kind of simple 'topless-U' I have constructed.
/Erling
Please come back and report on the ribbon and midrange progress. This is kind of a once-in-a lifetime project, I suppose ! Very interesting.
I do not know if you really need advice from outside. I can assure that within its limits the A&D R1524 is a very good and fast unit that won't miss out much on the lowest bass even in the kind of simple 'topless-U' I have constructed.
/Erling
Thank you fore your interest ... and I have my eye on A&D
Hopefully I shall report of success within the next year ... it seems I may have sold my present super speakers which I am happy to hand over to an old pal of mine, it will give me the needed space fore further work, cant wait to get on with it
About the woofer ... baffle will be modular with one fore the woofer one fore midbass/ribbons ... so it will quite easy to try the A&D if the one I have doesnt work out good enough ... although I may be more interested in the 18" R1830
Hopefully I shall report of success within the next year ... it seems I may have sold my present super speakers which I am happy to hand over to an old pal of mine, it will give me the needed space fore further work, cant wait to get on with it
About the woofer ... baffle will be modular with one fore the woofer one fore midbass/ribbons ... so it will quite easy to try the A&D if the one I have doesnt work out good enough ... although I may be more interested in the 18" R1830
question on what's hopefully a cardioid
Hello,
So I purchased 4 AE IB15 drivers specifically to use as the woofer in a 2.5 way setup (Manger / AE IB15 / Rythmik Audio DS15) with crossover points around 100 (4th order) for the Manger <> IB15 and the Rythmik rolled in under 40 Hz.
I would like to achieve as many advantages in as compact a frame as possible. Towards this end, would a design with the two drivers opposed on the two "legs" of a U-frame still achieve the cardioid polar pattern? The benefit would be the force-cancellation of opposed drivers - especially important in an "open" frame box like a U-frame. An incredibly professional sketch is attached.
I think this could be a good compromise between the M-frame (50% force cancellation, compact), U-frame (radiation pattern), and Linkwitz style W-frame (100% force cancellation, even order distortion cancellation) camps.
Yes, the U-frame would be adequately damped towards a cardioid radiation pattern. Yes, the entire U-frame could be much taller than floor height to avoid the floor reflection, although this also ameliorates some of the advantage of a virtual source due to proximity to the floor plane. With two such high performing drivers, I don't think I'll run out of volume displacement.
Entire setup is DSP-corrected with a Behringer DEQ2496, and so fine EQ tuning is not a problem, nor are impedance peaks/volume matching due to active crossover.
Please let me know your thoughts.
The alternative is a classic U-frame with the drivers arrayed vertically, and the bottom woofer inverted for some even-order distortion cancellation, as well as (hopefully) reduced high-frequency response coming out so close to the floor. If this is the setup used, I would raise the crossover point to the Manger to 150 - 190 Hz, depending what sounds good. Reduced low frequency duty should help the Manger...
thanks,
-Tal Allweil
Hello,
So I purchased 4 AE IB15 drivers specifically to use as the woofer in a 2.5 way setup (Manger / AE IB15 / Rythmik Audio DS15) with crossover points around 100 (4th order) for the Manger <> IB15 and the Rythmik rolled in under 40 Hz.
I would like to achieve as many advantages in as compact a frame as possible. Towards this end, would a design with the two drivers opposed on the two "legs" of a U-frame still achieve the cardioid polar pattern? The benefit would be the force-cancellation of opposed drivers - especially important in an "open" frame box like a U-frame. An incredibly professional sketch is attached.
I think this could be a good compromise between the M-frame (50% force cancellation, compact), U-frame (radiation pattern), and Linkwitz style W-frame (100% force cancellation, even order distortion cancellation) camps.
Yes, the U-frame would be adequately damped towards a cardioid radiation pattern. Yes, the entire U-frame could be much taller than floor height to avoid the floor reflection, although this also ameliorates some of the advantage of a virtual source due to proximity to the floor plane. With two such high performing drivers, I don't think I'll run out of volume displacement.
Entire setup is DSP-corrected with a Behringer DEQ2496, and so fine EQ tuning is not a problem, nor are impedance peaks/volume matching due to active crossover.
Please let me know your thoughts.
The alternative is a classic U-frame with the drivers arrayed vertically, and the bottom woofer inverted for some even-order distortion cancellation, as well as (hopefully) reduced high-frequency response coming out so close to the floor. If this is the setup used, I would raise the crossover point to the Manger to 150 - 190 Hz, depending what sounds good. Reduced low frequency duty should help the Manger...
thanks,
-Tal Allweil
Attachments
Re: question on what's hopefully a cardioid
Just as you mentioned, I think it will need a lower crossover point than the regular u-frame. Usually one doesn't want the woofer-to-midrange x-over too high when using sidemounted woofers. The force cancelation idea is neat. I think the concept looks interresting, please share your experience if you decide to build it!
Just as you mentioned, I think it will need a lower crossover point than the regular u-frame. Usually one doesn't want the woofer-to-midrange x-over too high when using sidemounted woofers. The force cancelation idea is neat. I think the concept looks interresting, please share your experience if you decide to build it!
taloyd said:
Just figure out that I may built an OB sub with 6-8 AE IB15
They will be mounted on a common BIG V-shaped baffle
Baffle will be placed in the middle behind the electronics
The odd shape is because my listening room will be under the roof
At the moment my main speakers would be AE td15m(closed) with CD/horn
They will be mounted on a common BIG V-shaped baffle
Baffle will be placed in the middle behind the electronics
The odd shape is because my listening room will be under the roof
At the moment my main speakers would be AE td15m(closed) with CD/horn
Attachments
nickmckinney said:
Me likes that copper sleeve sticking way up there
How far away is this motor going to be as that looks to be about as big as the cone?
Hi Nick, Have you and John considered doing a 6.5-7" driver?
I'd sure like to see an improved copy of the now discontinued
Ascendant Audio Poly 6.5, that can be seen tested here:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/
It uses a split voice coil to flatten the BL curve. Have you considered this or the XBL motor for any of your drivers?
Pete B.
I am not sure I answered Nicks question and concerns about the big magnet behind the cone
Poleplate will be about 50mm away from the back of cone
Additional there will be a thick alu chassis plate around the front poleplate
There will be 20mm round chassis support stays mounted directly to the baffle
Support stays will also be used fore a thread spider as well
Surround will be felt mounted directly to the baffle, no chassis
Allthough I may use a thick alu plate fore baffle/chassis, if I can raise the money needed
Nick you are right about your concern, but the surface behind the cone will be absolutely smooth with nothing sticking out
Further I plan to mount some felt too
I dont know, but I have this idea that air movement behind the cone will be different with an OB design ... worse in some sense and perhaps better in another
But it will be tricky to make a driver with no chassis behind the cone at all
I think the key factor here is an absolutely smooth surface with no edges
Could there be a market fore a AE dedicated OB mid/midwoofer ... ohh, I forgot the Dipole15 ... come to think of it, you have a 10" chassis, right
Poleplate will be about 50mm away from the back of cone
Additional there will be a thick alu chassis plate around the front poleplate
There will be 20mm round chassis support stays mounted directly to the baffle
Support stays will also be used fore a thread spider as well
Surround will be felt mounted directly to the baffle, no chassis
Allthough I may use a thick alu plate fore baffle/chassis, if I can raise the money needed
Nick you are right about your concern, but the surface behind the cone will be absolutely smooth with nothing sticking out
Further I plan to mount some felt too
I dont know, but I have this idea that air movement behind the cone will be different with an OB design ... worse in some sense and perhaps better in another
But it will be tricky to make a driver with no chassis behind the cone at all
I think the key factor here is an absolutely smooth surface with no edges
Could there be a market fore a AE dedicated OB mid/midwoofer ... ohh, I forgot the Dipole15 ... come to think of it, you have a 10" chassis, right
Qestion to AE
Regarding the Dipole15 ... does it have the cone curvature of the TD15M ... I suppose not, as it appears to be an older design
A widerange "Dipole10"(or 12) with the cone design of the TD15M may be a seller ... Fs around 25hz and SPL of 90db+ would be nice ... you seem to have the desired technology
Regarding the Dipole15 ... does it have the cone curvature of the TD15M ... I suppose not, as it appears to be an older design
A widerange "Dipole10"(or 12) with the cone design of the TD15M may be a seller ... Fs around 25hz and SPL of 90db+ would be nice ... you seem to have the desired technology
PB2 said:
Don't know if we will ever make a 6.5-7" as that market is well saturated. Only plans at the moment is for an 8"
No plans for XBL, it would not help our current and future planned designs. Our BL curve is already really good as is since we use such a thick top plate.
tinitus said:Could there be a market fore a AE dedicated OB mid/midwoofer ... ohh, I forgot the Dipole15 ... come to think of it, you have a 10" chassis, right
Dipole 10 is already available.
Since there seems to be so much interest let me see what I can do for a specific 10" midbass.
tinitus said:Qestion to AE
Regarding the Dipole15 ... does it have the cone curvature of the TD15M ... I suppose not, as it appears to be an older design
A widerange "Dipole10"(or 12) with the cone design of the TD15M may be a seller ... Fs around 25hz and SPL of 90db+ would be nice ... you seem to have the desired technology
We already do a Dipole 10 and 12, the SPL is not that high from what I remember. You all have me thinking about a 10" midbass specific variant, let me see what I can come up with.
When I was running Lambda NOBODY wanted a 10", I sold maybe 50 15" for a single 10" so I never bothered working on a true midbass version. Let me see what I can get together as I have had some thoughts before on it and it could use about 85% of the current parts we already have (I need a new cone and top plate for starters).
Sometimes it helps to google ... just found this one ... AE sales in EU
http://www.aespeakers.eu/
Maybe there is still hope fore my project ... lets see som prices
http://www.aespeakers.eu/
Maybe there is still hope fore my project ... lets see som prices
tinitus said:Qestion to AE
Regarding the Dipole15 ... does it have the cone curvature of the TD15M ... I suppose not, as it appears to be an older design
A widerange "Dipole10"(or 12) with the cone design of the TD15M may be a seller ... Fs around 25hz and SPL of 90db+ would be nice ... you seem to have the desired technology
All of the TD15's have the same cone profile as the depth and diameter is the same. The TD15M has a lighter cone though. I'm not sure what you meant by it appearing to be an older design. Nick designed both over the same time period. The main difference is that the Dipole, S, X, and H have a foam surround allowing for more excursion than the cloth surround on the TDM.
The Dipole12 is 90.2dB 1W, Fs 25.9Hz, with Qts of .68.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040307230254/lambdacoustics.com/drivers/DIPOLE12.html
The Dipole10 comes in at right around 87dB with same Fs and nearly identical Q to the 12" as the mass is nearly identical.
John
tinitus said:Sometimes it helps to google ... just found this one ... AE sales in EU
http://www.aespeakers.eu/
Maybe there is still hope fore my project ... lets see som prices
We hadn't announced anything yet as plans with all of this are still pending and nothing is official yet. We will likely need a full restructure of our pricing for this to fully come together.
John
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