No - feedback amplifier

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The golden mean

Member
Joined 2004
I own a LC Audio Patriot 100 amp (weighing about 100 lbs) that probably has much in common with the LC Audio Millenium amp. I use my amp for driving Eton ER-4 tweeters and although it´s possible to run the amp in 2*100 W class A I seldom do this, but instead use the class A reduce mode that limits class A operation to about 2*15 watt then class AB.

One thing is the low input impedance as I have planned to use some good teflon capacitors to the input for blocking low frequences that can make the amp clip. The caps have to be relatively high in capacitance and four of them (balanced input) will cost a lot.

Found this and hopefully it´s not an illegal address ( have a look at page 8 for the Millenium schematic). http://www.diyaudio.ru/filestore/Millenium_-_cookbook.pdf
 
kad

kad

Banned
Joined 2013
Woah, I love this cookbook.

Interestingly, this design is based on SWTPC Daniel Meyer's fully complementary from input to output amplifier circuitry (minus the feedback), which also happens to be my avatar...

Methinks of an op-amp circuitry similarity concerning this Millenium?

From Radio Electronics December 1973, I built (4) of those awesome sounding amplifiers. I regret having sold them...

This is the schematic:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Dec1973/RE_Dec_1973_pg44.jpg
I4cDnUB.jpg


~~~~~~~~~
You can’t build a reputation on what you’re going to do.
~ Henry Ford

There is no security on this earth; there is only opportunity.
~ General Douglas MacArthur

There is nothing new under the sun, but there are lots of old things we don't know.
~ Ambrose Bierce

The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.
~ Galileo Galilei
 
kad

kad

Banned
Joined 2013
Thanks tiefbassuebertr for all the info, this should be a sticky!

tiefbassuebertr said:
check out this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...-nfb-negative-feedback-me-wrong-question.html
also this threads and URLs perhaps are of interest:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...e-ended-related-solid-state-output-stage.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162142-tip3055-2n3055-based-power-amps.html

Output Buffer Stages
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/155582-help-amp-16.html (Harman's T-Circuit: Post #151)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...t-transistors-leach-superamp-help-needed.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/25172-baxandall-super-pair.html (CFP, Sziklai-Darlington)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/165165-edwin-20-watt-elektor-1970-may-3.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/113943-quad-303-triple-cascade.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...llower-diamond-buffer-power-output-stage.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/174126-best-topology-no-feedback-classab-buffer.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/71338-hot-follower-99-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/34437-power-follower-99c-vs-zen.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/156685-jfet-audio-buffer.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/156344-anyone-built-mosfet-follower-similar.html
Buffer Amp
Buffer Power amp. - diyAudio

Quasi complementary concepts
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162310-how-identify-quasi-complementary-amplifier.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/88258-brother-quasi.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/53264-another-quasi-complementary-design.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/6810-quasi-complementary-output.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/167394-quasi-amplifier-begginers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...omplementary-mosfet-citation-12-taa-book.html
NMOS Amplifier 900
NMOS Amplifier - diyAudio
N-Channel mosfet amplifier schematic needed 106759
N-Channel mosfet amplifier schematic needed - diyAudio
Push-Pull using only N-Channel MOSFETs 5053
Push-Pull using only N-Channel MOSFETs - diyAudio
N-channel only output devices in a power follower. 7511
N-channel only output devices in a power follower. - diyAudio
N-channel Problem HELPPPPPP 7542
N-channel Problem HELPPPPPP - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/110771-improving-linearity-n-ch-mosfet-output-stage.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...nder-development.html?perpage=25&pagenumber=1
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...better-audio-non-complements-audio-power.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/154388-its-cheap-its-n-its-dirty-its-circlomos.html
Black devil #47
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/154493-your-opinion-about-schematics-5.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/99967-anybody-have-scan-483b-motorola-2.html (Black devil)
only N-Channel/NPN BjT's
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=821629&stamp=1137723117
von
has anyone heard of this? composite collector load..... - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162644-siliconix-siemens-nmos-amplifiers.html
Only N-Channel MOSFETs (NMOS); better Audio from non complements by Audio Power? 1102
Only N-Channel MOSFETs (NMOS); better Audio from non complements by Audio Power? - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/174126-best-topology-no-feedback-classab-buffer.html

current-conveyors (CC) Jannemann PAX
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/163039-current-conveyors.html
LEF Carlos Candeias
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/168185-how-does-lef-load-effect-free-amplifier-work.html

push-pull-push-und-push-pull-pull
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/66334-gamut-d200-clone.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...h-pull-pull-like-gamnut-whats-right-name.html

Parallel connected output devices
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...s-paralleled-place-one-output-transistor.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/140542-how-drive-8-pairs-mjl21193-94-a.html
MOSFET Output
Improving the linearity of an N-ch MOSFET output stage 3524 Starter: X-PRO, Entwickler vom A3i
Improving the linearity of an N-ch MOSFET output stage - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/23526-best-mosfet-output-stages-11.html (page 11, also circlotron)

Error Correction
Linx Nebula Schematic - diyAudio error correction amp
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/89023-bob-cordell-interview-error-correction.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/41752-re-new-error-correction-amp.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...r-correction-amp.html?perpage=10&pagenumber=1.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...awksford-error-correction-nfb-unity-gain.html

MJR
new Renardson amp - diyAudio
MJR-7 Mosfet Amplifier of M. Renardson - diyAudio
What is the optimum -3db bandwidth for amplifiers with feedback ? - diyAudio

NDFL (nested feedback loops)
nested feedback loops - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/148066-new-cherry-ndfl-amp.html

CFP gain stage, modifications.
CFP gain stage, modifications. - diyAudio
CFP und emittergekoppelte Differenzverstärker
CFP gain stage, modifications. - diyAudio
50W, Class A, another one... :) - Page 9 - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/88515-cfp-vas.html

Cascode
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/174542-what-name-topology-2.html (emitter cascode)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...ke-stasis-no-longer-used-todays-amps-why.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/154670-my-folded-cascode-vas-linearity-investigation.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1621315&stamp=1222759259 (folded cascode)
Input stage idea - diyAudio ((Rush Cascode for input)

IC-Amp
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/69782-death-gain-clone.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip...ed-topologies-yamaha-mx-10000-quad-405-a.html

Compensation capacitor Cdom
Compensation capacitor Cdom - diyAudio

SuSy
Texas Instruments licenses Pass patent - diyAudio (SuSy US 5376899 go to TI)
Precision Amplifier - Low Noise - OPA1632 - TI.com (Nelson Pass SuSy US 5376899)
Four for SuSy? (Sansuis Diamond Transistor)
Four for SuSy? - Page 2 - diyAudio
Bridged vs Conventional Amps - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1899163&stamp=1249756796

Technics Class-A versions
:: Audiotek 69 - [Technics SE-A1?] :: - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=275083&stamp=1070435722 Technics SE-A1, AA
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=275084&stamp=1070435794 Technics SE-A1, AA
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=275085&stamp=1070435872 Technics SE-A1, AA
New-Class-A ? (whats it mean) - diyAudio
New-Class-A ? (whats it mean) - diyAudio (New Class A)
http://www.geocities.com/technicshifi/SVI2004A.JPG (SVI2004A)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=372795&stamp=1082105786 (SVI2004A inside)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1707595&stamp=1231499564 (TechnicsOutput BUF)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/922-technics-class-bias-circuits.html

Class XD
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/87916-class-xd.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/91779-class-xd-doug-self-again.html
Class XD.... - diyAudio (Diskussion)
class XD - Doug Self is at it again - diyAudio (Diskussion, Quelle für URL)

Class-B w-o-crossover-distortion
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/45249-crossover-distortion-gone.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/160285-class-b-w-o-crossover-distortion-1975-a.html (Visch Topology)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162559-new-class-super-non-switching-need-revival.html

Class G, H
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/39481-high-power-class-g-amplifier.html
NFB
Looking for Feedback on this No Feedback Amp
Looking for Feedback on this No Feedback Amp. - diyAudio
Resurrection: Old Parts - New Amp. - Page 5 - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/94676-bob-cordell-interview-negative-feedback.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/42259-zero-feedback-impedance-amplifiers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...-distortion-cancellation-power-amplifier.html

Auto-Bias, variable Bias
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/145013-variable-operating-biass-output.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...ss-b-thule-audio-topology-also-used-teac.html
Threshold's optobias - diyAudio (Optobias US4752745)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...as-automatic-self-biased-overview-wanted.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...-complementary-power-amplifier-j-diamond.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...-sliding-bias-amps-out-there.html#post2326257
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...g-schemes-bipolar-transistor-circlotrons.html

Out = GND
Hafner/QSC
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/169988-qsc-topology-but-without-opamp.html

Preamp, Equalizer
Make A Good Pre-amplifier???
Make A Good Pre-amplifier??? - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/153755-baxandall-tone-control-circuit.html

Voltage Regulator
Bipolar discrete shunt regulators
Bipolar discrete shunt regulators - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/90728-bob-cordell-interview-power-supplies.html
Various
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/165130-curious-extra-knob-trans-amp.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...iency-class-audio-amplifier-aes-preprint.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/23526-best-mosfet-output-stages.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...e-current-dumping-circlotron-afterburner.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/166784-pictures-your-diy-pass-amplifier.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/130175-old-transistor-data-2.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...opologies-100ma-idle-sound-closest-class.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/154493-your-opinion-about-schematics.html (Black devil Nytech couple capacitor to loudspeaker)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/169282-help-diff-amp-current-balance.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/153832-pass-delite-amp-baf.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/168694-could-ever-functionnal.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/150024-class-inherent-disadvantages.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/23526-best-mosfet-output-stages.html
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II 1.184.524
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - diyAudio
Crescendo Elektor 63
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148227
Ebay 15W class-a zero feedback modules? 241
Ebay 15W class-a zero feedback modules? - diyAudio
First time solid amp 226
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/149025-first-time-solid-amp.html
Beast with a Thousand JFETs 13048
Beast with a Thousand JFETs - diyAudio
Class A push-pull 760
Class A push-pull - diyAudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/97551-igbt-amplifiers-5.html#post2317589
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/139924-luxman-l58a-2sk163-2sj44-4.html#post2327172
(Clausen's Millenium Amp "The End")
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162310-how-identify-quasi-complementary-amplifier.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/175866-real-amp.html#post2342144 (what is the best Amp for big that torodial transformer)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...do-millennium-offset-problem.html#post2322721
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/160416-threshold-amps-dc-protected-2.html (post #13 universal DC protect methody)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/146310-bf862-preamp.html
VSOP-Amp
VSOP amp - diyAudio
Click to expand...


(Unless it already is, I'm a noobie here since I only joined yesterday. But I learn fast! ;) Yet I've been at it all my life :confused:)

~~~~~~~~~~
A project is complete when it starts working for you, rather than you working for it.
~ Scott Allen

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
~ Martin Luther King Jr., 1929-1968

In business, three things are necessary: knowledge, temper, and time.
~ Owen Felltham
 
Smiley 09

Smiley 09

Member
Joined 2009
The golden mean said:
I own a LC Audio Patriot 100 amp (weighing about 100 lbs) that probably has much in common with the LC Audio Millenium amp. I use my amp for driving Eton ER-4 tweeters and although it´s possible to run the amp in 2*100 W class A I seldom do this, but instead use the class A reduce mode that limits class A operation to about 2*15 watt then class AB.
Click to expand...

@ The golden mean

It looks that Your amplifier is ''Green'' oriented in ''reduce mode'' very nice feature indeed,
I'm curious about the lowest ohmic ability of the amps You mention ? can the Patriot continuously drive 0,5 - 1 Ohm constant load ?

Nicest regard,

Andreas
 
L

Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Smiley 09 said:
Hi Kim,

This is a great info for all who like to taste the sound of this Amp.
Thank You for great DIY spirit and will.

Andreas
Click to expand...

Hi Andreas,

I am waiting for permission to show the manual, but unfortunately the complete PCB layout is missing.

The circuit plus PCB component locations is described.

I don't think the exact layout has ever been published, so there should be some layout work left for the dark winter days.:)

rgds. Kim
 
L

Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
kad said:
Methinks of an op-amp circuitry similarity concerning this Millenium?

From Radio Electronics December 1973, I built (4) of those awesome sounding amplifiers. I regret having sold them...
Click to expand...

Well, with all the published schematics it's hard to find circuit details not used before.:)

The one from Radio Electronics looks a bit like the Leach double superamp.

One of the The End mk.II amps made by me used the quite low ft MJ4502/802 from Motorola....I did try with those 90V (45dc-0-45dc max rails)old power transistors just to check if something audible was missing....I could not hear any loss whatsoever.
 
L

Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Great news for analog fans

I have just received written permission from L.C.Audio and the owner of the schematic to show the manual.
I have translated the danish manual to english for the fabulous well sounding :

"The Millennium XP" DC amplifier.

Find the link for Millennium XP on my amateur site: TUBEAMP

Secondly I have oploaded the 1995 Danish layout for "The End mk.3.1". The link for the mk.3.1 version at my site above.

Finally the question:

I asked the owner of L.C.Audio whether he would consider to produce the PCB and component kit for the 3.1 and the Millennium once again. The owner said that the minimum order for him was 100 pcs. of the PCB either for the 3.1 or the Millennium.
L.C. Audio has a very good reputation, but the company is not very large and do not have the economy to produce what ever costumers and I asks for.
If we could gather several persons who could have interest, and would like to buy the PCB's for either the 3.1 (which uses standard components) or the PCB for the Millennium XP ( which uses SMD components) , L.C. Audio would be willing to produce the kit's once more.:)

I have a responce gmail which is: kim.jul.hansen2012@gmail.com

When I know the approx. price for the kit I shall return.

Rgds. Kim

Ps. I am old fashioned ....I like "The End mk.3.1" ....look at tubeamp to find the 3.1
 

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Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Telstar said:
Kim, thank you very much for all the work you are putting on this. SMD soldering isn't friendly to my eyes, so I would go for the through-hole "the end".
Go ahead and start the GB, 100 pcs will take a month or more to reach i think.
Click to expand...

Telstar, you're welcome! If possible please spread the news....we might be able to convince L.C.Audio to produce the PCB's again.

Even that I work with optical lenses the small SMD components is not for me ....to use a forceps in order to solder a 2,5mm capacitor or a 2mm resistor....(may be less that 2mm) Hmmmm ...I like 1/4 w Beyslag's approx. 9mm lenght :cool:

Forgot to say:

Five guy's told me that Picasa Web are useless for reading ....this is not correct. Use the magnification button above the jpg. picture...when the magnification is ok , use the high-lighted window in the right bottom corner to navigate with:)
 
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L

Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Telstar said:
Jpeg quality is nowhere as good as the original pdf you made, can you upload it somewhere?
Click to expand...

I have just tried at Flickr and PhotoDrop...same result. Let's try here ....there are permission of 976 kb in this forum.....you can get two pictures :)
 

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Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Picture upload is very slow here.....

Telstar, I made the jpg.pic out of a pdf. file which original was a zip from scanned pictures. Consequently the resolution is a result derived from the earlier miserable scan.

That's all for today.

Rgds. Kim
 

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Leakstereo20

Disabled Account
Joined 2011
Telstar said:
Why you insist with pictures? The text is not searchable etc. your site doesn't allow to host a small file? I can guess 2MB tops, then put on a place like mediafire, just google free file hosting.
Click to expand...

What do you mean with the text is not searchable. I think it's easy enough to read. And yes you are right ...if I had the possibilty to upload 2Mb on my payment free site I would have done just that.

Rgds
 
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