new waveguide from Eminence WG10

[head_unit]

Yes, I've asked Erich at diysoundgroup a couple times over the last 2 months if they ever get batches of any of the SEOS waveguides in stock. I haven't heard back yet. Too bad if they're gone for good. I'd really like to have tried some of the larger SEOS waveguides.
Dan

Just like the calibrated UMIK at cross-spectrum
Who actually MAKES the SEOS waveguides?

 

[Zvu]

They are made in China as far as i know ?

I might be wrong though because there are woofers in offer at diysoundgroup with sandwich composite cones that look like Lyeco from Taiwan.

HGR Series - Li Yuan Electronic Co.,LTD

There is also some company from Asia, that makes similar drives, called Davis (not french Davis Acoustics) but i haven't been able to find them on the web.

 

[AllenB]

The Eminence has a taller vertical, so might hold lower. May not try to be so narrow to begin with which is harder to hold. Only guessing without measurements.

 

[sheeple]

My guess is that product that sells that good will be available as long as the company exists. We'll see.

It is an injection molded part and the question is whether the people of DiySoundGroup ever owned the actual mold or how the business was done, i.e. as a direct production contract for a certain time span of some years. The mold itself was most possible not only used at some manufacturing plant "overseas" to produce the actual plastic waveguides, but also milled there. If the contractor is not willing to produce more and they never owned the mold itself, it could actually simply be gone. A mold is an expensive means of production, you cannot just make another one.

 

[sheeple]

The Eminence has a taller vertical, so might hold lower. May not try to be so narrow to begin with which is harder to hold. Only guessing without measurements.

I cannot follow ?

 

[AllenB]

Going ellipsoidal tends to challenge the design. On one hand the usable frequency gets set by the small dimension, so it is almost a waste to make the horizontal so big. Besides, the vertical is the more important one to do properly.

Secondly, making the vertical narrower as well makes it even harder because holding a narrow pattern requires a larger waveguide for a given frequency.

 

[Dan_E10]

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Erich's post over at AVS forum from the end of 2019 didn't give me too much confidence:
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... | Page 639 | AVS Forum

So here's the issue with their replacements: And this is pretty much the case with every item on the site, including kits. Example - if you buy an item for $50 and sell it for $55 you don't get enough money back to reorder......until that item is nearly depleted. That's why some kits go out of stock for months. If a run of SEOS-12's cost $23k and they're sold at $28 each, then they can't be reordered with that same initial money until 820 are sold.

Another problem has to deal with shipping costs. When the SEOS-12 was first done they were shipped on a container with other parts that Bill Waslo and I had tested samples of, so a shipping container made it worthwhile and shipping averaged out okay. But shipping pallets of SEOS-12's would be very expensive due to the smaller number that can fit on a pallet versus the cost to ship a pallet. So because the SEOS-12 from the original group buy wasn't getting ordered very much anyway, I made a decision to hold off reordering until the SEOS-10 and SEOS-15 got low enough to justify reordering all sizes to ship in a container.

That's why the SEOS-10,12, and 15 have been out of stock for a while.

 

[weltersys]

The Eminence has a taller vertical, so might hold lower. May not try to be so narrow to begin with which is harder to hold. Only guessing without measurements.

The measurements of the WG10 in post #13 look quite good, surprising low end pattern control, and uniform polar response, even outside it's nominal 70x60 rating.

It's "70" is wider than a lot of so called "90" for the top octave.

Art

 

[Taterworks]

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Erich's post over at AVS forum from the end of 2019 didn't give me too much confidence:
Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... | Page 639 | AVS Forum

It sounds like there is no problem actually manufacturing the horns, and the problem is a commerical one. The SEOS waveguides are underpriced to support a business. They should be offered at closer to $65 minimum, and a price up to $85 could be justified due to the necessary margin to support continuous business. They cost $28 because of the very thick wall design that imparts desirable sonic characteristics, but consumes a lot of resin. It sounds like a new group buy might be needed to support a new production run off the existing tool.

I bought some Renkus-Heinz Complex Conic horn flares a while ago, and they are made from cast resin (not injection molded), and they also have very thick walls, nearly 12mm thick for the larger ones. In the world of PA horns, they are the best sounding ones I am aware of, superior to many fiberglass and die cast horns.

 

[wafflesomd]

I have some wg10 going into 2 way.

Not sure how eminence specs dispersion but these are like 45 degrees horizontal in the real world. You can see it in vbs 10.2. which I almost have completed. Never had a pa speaker that actually measures good so excited to hear these.

 

[Taterworks]

HF horn and waveguide coverage pattern is typically specified where the output is -6dB from on-axis, because when multiple horns are arrayed, the -6dB angle is where two horns will theoretically sum together to 0dB.

@wafflesomd Apart from narrow coverage, how do you find the sound of the WG10? I think Eminence is closing them out which is too bad, but it seems like a commercial decision due to slow sales. Eminence compression drivers don't get a whole lot of love but my aforementioned Renkus-Heinz PA main speakers use them in the HF section, and Community also rebranded them as HFE2 and used them in their speakers. I've been interested in the Eminence 314X compression drivers with Textreme diaphragms; the 1.4" exit should preserve wider HF coverage angle than the typical 2"-exit compression driver, which tends to beam strongly due to the throat diameter.

 

[Arez]

Denovo audio is the "mfg" of the SEOS waveguides. I guess they are injection molded/produced somewhere else. Denovo audio is still making products.
Diysoundgroup. Has looked kinda dead for years, and that seems to have been a theme of this side business of his from reading here and there. As to availability idk.

 

[tommus]

measurements with a Celestion CDX1-1731

https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/waveguide-shootout/1in-bolt-horns/eminence-wg-10

the page is a great resource: https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/waveguide-shootout

 

[norman bates]

nice round over at mouth

 

[wafflesomd]

HF horn and waveguide coverage pattern is typically specified where the output is -6dB from on-axis, because when multiple horns are arrayed, the -6dB angle is where two horns will theoretically sum together to 0dB.

@wafflesomd Apart from narrow coverage, how do you find the sound of the WG10? I think Eminence is closing them out which is too bad, but it seems like a commercial decision due to slow sales. Eminence compression drivers don't get a whole lot of love but my aforementioned Renkus-Heinz PA main speakers use them in the HF section, and Community also rebranded them as HFE2 and used them in their speakers. I've been interested in the Eminence 314X compression drivers with Textreme diaphragms; the 1.4" exit should preserve wider HF coverage angle than the typical 2"-exit compression driver, which tends to beam strongly due to the throat diameter.

no idea how they sound, I'm waiting on drivers to get here.

 

[Dan_E10]

It sounds like there is no problem actually manufacturing the horns, and the problem is a commerical one. The SEOS waveguides are underpriced to support a business. They should be offered at closer to $65 minimum, and a price up to $85 could be justified due to the necessary margin to support continuous business. They cost $28 because of the very thick wall design that imparts desirable sonic characteristics, but consumes a lot of resin. It sounds like a new group buy might be needed to support a new production run off the existing tool.

I sent off an e-mail to auto-tech in Poland who also carry the SEOS horns as well as others such as the JMLC profiles. I haven't heard back from them yet on prices/shipping to the US. Are they still in business? Were they they original suppliers of the SEOS horns to diysoundgroup?
Dan

 

[wafflesomd]

@wafflesomd Apart from narrow coverage, how do you find the sound of the WG10? I think Eminence is closing them out which is too bad, but it seems like a commercial decision due to slow sales. Eminence compression drivers don't get a whole lot of love but my aforementioned Renkus-Heinz PA main speakers use them in the HF section, and Community also rebranded them as HFE2 and used them in their speakers. I've been interested in the Eminence 314X compression drivers with Textreme diaphragms; the 1.4" exit should preserve wider HF coverage angle than the typical 2"-exit compression driver, which tends to beam strongly due to the throat diameter.

Idk yet, they're just boxes for now until I can swing the money for the drivers. I have other speakers with similar dispersion and I like them. I like narrow because my rooms generally don't have treatment for wide to sound good.