ML-Transflex , Karlflex, Super Planar and Paraflex subwoofer images/sketches/plans
Brookhart,
If you are still following this discussion i have some sketches/plans and build photos for you look at , starting with the older stuff and working up to some newer compound loaded designs (accounting for Lossy Inductance , so higher standards in that regard) ..
I apologize for taking so long to get these posted:
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Here is the Karflex (official final revision ... This is still a few years old though)
The Karlflex 15 built by Mattcalf in Australia
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Ok , now moving on to some of the more current compound loaded QW and compound horn designs including the Paraflex Subwoofer and Super Planar series ... (discussed at the Facebook Group and also here on DIYaudio in the compound loaded discussion , but all of my images are currently hosed on there) ..
Lots of different options for Paraflex fold layouts (seen below) ..
Here is one example of how one of the folds can be applied (internal bracing not shown here) :
This one (below) was designed for an Art Car for Burning Man, it was originally optimized for the 18SW115 but performs even better with an 18DS115 ! ..... As it turns out the removable front panel must be doubled up and reinforced with strip bracing.. ...... This sketch doesn't show bracing but this cabinet must be well braced internally ..
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There is much more... These are just some examples of what we have been up to lately ..
Brookhart,
If you are still following this discussion i have some sketches/plans and build photos for you look at , starting with the older stuff and working up to some newer compound loaded designs (accounting for Lossy Inductance , so higher standards in that regard) ..
I apologize for taking so long to get these posted:
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|
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Here is the Karflex (official final revision ... This is still a few years old though)
The Karlflex 15 built by Mattcalf in Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok , now moving on to some of the more current compound loaded QW and compound horn designs including the Paraflex Subwoofer and Super Planar series ... (discussed at the Facebook Group and also here on DIYaudio in the compound loaded discussion , but all of my images are currently hosed on there) ..
Lots of different options for Paraflex fold layouts (seen below) ..
Here is one example of how one of the folds can be applied (internal bracing not shown here) :
This one (below) was designed for an Art Car for Burning Man, it was originally optimized for the 18SW115 but performs even better with an 18DS115 !
..... As it turns out the removable front panel must be doubled up and reinforced with strip bracing.. ...... This sketch doesn't show bracing but this cabinet must be well braced internally ..
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There is much more... These are just some examples of what we have been up to lately ..
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Hi!
has anyone built karlflex or the older ml-transflex version with LAB12? I tried searching without luck.
Also, what advantage karlflex has over BR enclosure (for lab12), smaller size? the ml-transflex version has the motor exposed for better cooling, which was only clear advantage i've found on this thread so far. Cool looks of the karlson aperture is a plus for the karlflex
Thanks!
has anyone built karlflex or the older ml-transflex version with LAB12? I tried searching without luck.
Also, what advantage karlflex has over BR enclosure (for lab12), smaller size? the ml-transflex version has the motor exposed for better cooling, which was only clear advantage i've found on this thread so far. Cool looks of the karlson aperture is a plus for the karlflex
Thanks!
Maybe MMJ already has a design for that speaker (?) TB46's ~80 liter Karlflex for 15 inch speakers is tuned too high for LAB!2. I don't know if there are real advantages to the K-flex over an offset driver line, or bass reflex other than aesthetics (?)
LAB12 needs to be tuned at least a half-octave lower than this little K-flex.
Here's Eminence's suggestions https://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12_cab.pdf
LAB12 needs to be tuned at least a half-octave lower than this little K-flex.
Here's Eminence's suggestions https://www.eminence.com/pdf/LAB_12_cab.pdf
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Thanks for the sims freddi!
Last night I read pages from spring 2015 which had some content on lab12 in the 60 litre karlflex, pondering about the aperture location affecting series/parallel tuning as well as lower tuning for lab12 and some other driver. I'll read more to find out.
I'm about to make some dust so tried to cut few hours of reading time by asking if I should change my plans to a karlflex
Last night I read pages from spring 2015 which had some content on lab12 in the 60 litre karlflex, pondering about the aperture location affecting series/parallel tuning as well as lower tuning for lab12 and some other driver. I'll read more to find out.
I'm about to make some dust so tried to cut few hours of reading time by asking if I should change my plans to a karlflex
here's something which might be pertinent Lab 12 Based Offset Driver - Mass Loaded - Transmission Line (OD-ML-TL) Design by Bj
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if you could get ~900uF worth of decent capacitor, it looks like 35 liters sealed box would make a nice little 3rd order alignment with LAB12 - what do you think of that ? you would have to ask around for which electrolytics might be suitable. I have film 600VDC 600uF caps larger than a Foster's beer can
LAB12 optimized Paraflex (currently being used in PA applications)
Hey guys , for the Lab12 we were able to come up with a high performance Paraflex design ..... It was based on my plans/sketch and built by Simon Damiani and Luke Magrath (SL Audio
located in Leeds, Yorkshire, England)......
They made two of these cabinets (and they will build for other people in England if anyone requests)... ...... Simon and Luke previously had these Lab12s in reflex cabinets, and based upon where they had to set their levels now Simon believes the Paraflex cabinets gained them upwards of 10 decibels over the reflex cabinets! To be fair they are physically huge in comparison though
Simon and Luke have told me that these cabinets are solid from around 30hz to 100hz in the real world (even though the simulation showed the F3 located somewhat higher up around 40hz)..
Below is the removable access panel
Cabinet waiting for it's driver and removable access panel to be installed
Here (below) we see the finished cabinet
At one of their first gigs
Here (below) is a review and some feedback from Simon and Luke:
"To hear the cabinet in action it is very hard to believe it is only a 12” driver, although the cabinet does look like it was built for a 15” or 18”! (2ft x 2ft x 3.5ft approx).
The bass is deep, powerful and musically responsive, compared to the previous cabinet that it was in it is very hard to believe it’s the same driver. I don’t have measuring equipment but the speakers keep up to 99db rated tops (adding nearly 10db efficiency which I wasn’t even sure was possible).
The downsides to this build are... excessive bass especially in the dj booth, not sure if thats a bad thing but writing does begin to look blurry when they are cranked up
��.... the barn we dj’ed in on the weekend said we were peaking they’re db meter for noise levels, again not necessarily a bad thing
��.....
Items on top of the subs need to be screwed/bolted or fastened down! Because the speaker fires upwards the shock hits the driver access panel which has been difficult to brace. This cab design definitely needs lots of bracing!
All in all I would say the Paraflex has impressed me in ways I never thought it would. I was expecting a very low but boomy and undefined bass from such a large cab. But it’s nothing like that. It is responsive, deep and punchy.
If I was to remake it I would want to make it out of thicker plywood, although then moving the beasts would become an issue (10kg driver + 25kg wood atm)"
Hey guys , for the Lab12 we were able to come up with a high performance Paraflex design ..... It was based on my plans/sketch and built by Simon Damiani and Luke Magrath (SL Audio
located in Leeds, Yorkshire, England)......
They made two of these cabinets (and they will build for other people in England if anyone requests)... ...... Simon and Luke previously had these Lab12s in reflex cabinets, and based upon where they had to set their levels now Simon believes the Paraflex cabinets gained them upwards of 10 decibels over the reflex cabinets! To be fair they are physically huge in comparison though
Simon and Luke have told me that these cabinets are solid from around 30hz to 100hz in the real world (even though the simulation showed the F3 located somewhat higher up around 40hz)..
Below is the removable access panel
Cabinet waiting for it's driver and removable access panel to be installed
Here (below) we see the finished cabinet
At one of their first gigs
Here (below) is a review and some feedback from Simon and Luke:
"To hear the cabinet in action it is very hard to believe it is only a 12” driver, although the cabinet does look like it was built for a 15” or 18”! (2ft x 2ft x 3.5ft approx).
The bass is deep, powerful and musically responsive, compared to the previous cabinet that it was in it is very hard to believe it’s the same driver. I don’t have measuring equipment but the speakers keep up to 99db rated tops (adding nearly 10db efficiency which I wasn’t even sure was possible).
The downsides to this build are... excessive bass especially in the dj booth, not sure if thats a bad thing but writing does begin to look blurry when they are cranked up
Items on top of the subs need to be screwed/bolted or fastened down! Because the speaker fires upwards the shock hits the driver access panel which has been difficult to brace. This cab design definitely needs lots of bracing!
All in all I would say the Paraflex has impressed me in ways I never thought it would. I was expecting a very low but boomy and undefined bass from such a large cab. But it’s nothing like that. It is responsive, deep and punchy.
If I was to remake it I would want to make it out of thicker plywood, although then moving the beasts would become an issue (10kg driver + 25kg wood atm)"
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To be fair they are physically huge in comparison though
The Iron Law remains unbroken...
The Iron Law remains unbroken...
Hehe right ..
... Oh but we are so very determined and we try and we try
.. We can do a bit better with a stronger driver ...
The Lab12 driver has a weak motor with a motor force score of only 37.7 after lossy inductance is accounted for .... With drivers like the B&C 12TBX100 or 12NW100 (scoring 100 and 106 on the motor force using the same standards) we can get the cabinet size down to around 100 liters net if we want and end up with a similar level of output ..
The Skar DDX12 takes the cake though because it is nearly as strong in the motor force department , has an Xmax rating of 15mm one-way , high power handling and costs considerably less than the Lab12, TBX100 or NW100 ...... I wish the DDX had less moving mass but for this sort of value i should not complain ..
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hey MMJ - if you ever get time, would you eyeball this K as a constricted transflex and come up with a hornresp model? I want to see how this style behaves in general in the low end and how it might scale (the drawing below is scaled down from an 8 inch K) (I've no idea how to fudge its exit)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...ABVY/Kn9Ql6AVzrY/w1040-h796-no/HAK6.5.GCF.PNG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...ABVY/Kn9Ql6AVzrY/w1040-h796-no/HAK6.5.GCF.PNG
my 41.5" tall K18 with curved upper reflector came out pretty nice sound-wise - it goes to 4KHz on-axis with the old EVM18B - But I don't feel one bit confident about "designing" the things. Just blocking say 6 inches of the narrow upper part of the aperture results in a less airy and less agile sound (why?) I like the sound of this one a lot - but not its looks - maybe a trim strip below the woofer would help a bit.
help me make one of these too in a 10" or 12 "
this cabinet is ~41.5" tall, 21.5" wide and 16 inches deep
- it has no front "shelf" but does sport a rear lowpass choke/shelf
help me make one of these too in a 10" or 12 "
this cabinet is ~41.5" tall, 21.5" wide and 16 inches deep
- it has no front "shelf" but does sport a rear lowpass choke/shelf
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Ok , catching up ...
Freddi,
The K12 and low tuned X15 copy from post #2155 look disastrous with those deep notches in response , the 115BK is not so bad .... .
Your 41.5" tall K18 from post #2156 looks relatively fantastic!
What features of these designs do you suppose makes some of them perform better than others? Do you feel that the shelves and chokes play a part here?
If you prefer the taller dimensions (like your K18) then yes we can definitely scale that for your 12" Eminence driver while retaining the height ... ... I like the idea of a longer total path length with minimal internal folds and less Mass Loading required at the interchamber duct
....The "Freddi-mod" stuffed stub at the end of the interchamber duct would help to tame some of the harmonic energy that such a QW resonator would generate... ..... Will have to see what Akabak thinks of the idea 
. .. It only takes a path length of four feet (or 4.5 feet) with constant CSA in order to get into the tuning range that you want..... Would be easy enough to integrate a "choke", it is basically like setting up a rear compression chamber or ported throat chamber if i am understanding it correctly ..
Freddi,
The K12 and low tuned X15 copy from post #2155 look disastrous with those deep notches in response , the 115BK is not so bad .... .
Your 41.5" tall K18 from post #2156 looks relatively fantastic!
What features of these designs do you suppose makes some of them perform better than others? Do you feel that the shelves and chokes play a part here?
If you prefer the taller dimensions (like your K18) then yes we can definitely scale that for your 12" Eminence driver while retaining the height ... ... I like the idea of a longer total path length with minimal internal folds and less Mass Loading required at the interchamber duct
....The "Freddi-mod" stuffed stub at the end of the interchamber duct would help to tame some of the harmonic energy that such a QW resonator would generate... ..... Will have to see what Akabak thinks of the idea . .. It only takes a path length of four feet (or 4.5 feet) with constant CSA in order to get into the tuning range that you want..... Would be easy enough to integrate a "choke", it is basically like setting up a rear compression chamber or ported throat chamber if i am understanding it correctly ..
Freddi,
I also wanted to ask for your opinion about some more bright sounding 15" drivers... What are your thoughts on the EVM 15L and EV's DL15X? We can get them used on Ebay for a low price .... Seems like they would be good candidates for something like a K-slotted Karlson cabinet ....
I was thinking a DL15X might also be great in a Super Planar top , or the 15L in low power situations ..... The SP tops require bright drivers ideally , they have that in common with the Karlsons and K-variants ..
I also wanted to ask for your opinion about some more bright sounding 15" drivers... What are your thoughts on the EVM 15L and EV's DL15X? We can get them used on Ebay for a low price .... Seems like they would be good candidates for something like a K-slotted Karlson cabinet ....
I was thinking a DL15X might also be great in a Super Planar top , or the 15L in low power situations ..... The SP tops require bright drivers ideally , they have that in common with the Karlsons and K-variants ..
Hi MMJ -
I have KK-Audio's version of the littke Karlson box (as bujilt by Transylvania) and is like 115BK other than a fancier reflector and a rear choke (no padding in the cabinet nor under the choke. In that case the frequency response is a bit rougher than 115BK as is the impedance graph
115BK's graph, considering the mic was laying on the ground, and zero damping material in the box, was pretty smooth
Does the mid chamber of 115BK act as a smoothing element?
I don't like the looks of my K18 - it slooks a bit too tall or something "off" aestheically - but it is a prety good performer. When it was loaded with heavier mass (130g) 18" it had a bump around 80Hz.
If you can make use of more height via Akabak, intuition, or voodoo - then march ahead !
EV15L in good condition (as are 15B) are good, limited to ~3.3mm xmax IIRC and recone kits available - my JBL M151 aren't far off other than an aluminum dustcap.
K15 outdoors with EVM15L - can't rmember how close - the HF beams were probably "above" the bmic due to baffle tilt
115BKwith EVM15L 20v distortion
I have KK-Audio's version of the littke Karlson box (as bujilt by Transylvania) and is like 115BK other than a fancier reflector and a rear choke (no padding in the cabinet nor under the choke. In that case the frequency response is a bit rougher than 115BK as is the impedance graph
115BK's graph, considering the mic was laying on the ground, and zero damping material in the box, was pretty smooth
Does the mid chamber of 115BK act as a smoothing element?
I don't like the looks of my K18 - it slooks a bit too tall or something "off" aestheically - but it is a prety good performer. When it was loaded with heavier mass (130g) 18" it had a bump around 80Hz.
If you can make use of more height via Akabak, intuition, or voodoo - then march ahead !
EV15L in good condition (as are 15B) are good, limited to ~3.3mm xmax IIRC and recone kits available - my JBL M151 aren't far off other than an aluminum dustcap.
K15 outdoors with EVM15L - can't rmember how close - the HF beams were probably "above" the bmic due to baffle tilt
115BKwith EVM15L 20v distortion
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