I was intending on buying just 4 but I got a very good deal on them and made it very hard to say no.
Well I am hoping they are not completely foreign sounding to me as the come from the same family as the drivers in my Cremona's.
Will take a while to break them in as it did the Cremona's, I took them out of the box for the first time and listened to them green and they sounded terrible.
I'm going to see if I can split the order and get some 8 ohm for the front 3 speakers, and 4 ohm for the rear where I will use them in singles.
Not sure what I am going to do for woofers just yet I would like to hear what I have sounds like first. I still have the 2 x 10" Vifa's to play with.
Worst case scenario I should still have 93dB with the 8 ohm...
Curious what is it you don't like about them?
Well I am hoping they are not completely foreign sounding to me as the come from the same family as the drivers in my Cremona's.
Will take a while to break them in as it did the Cremona's, I took them out of the box for the first time and listened to them green and they sounded terrible.
I'm going to see if I can split the order and get some 8 ohm for the front 3 speakers, and 4 ohm for the rear where I will use them in singles.
Not sure what I am going to do for woofers just yet I would like to hear what I have sounds like first. I still have the 2 x 10" Vifa's to play with.
Worst case scenario I should still have 93dB with the 8 ohm...
Curious what is it you don't like about them?
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They are good drivers, very neutral but I seem to prefer the revelator series.
By the way, just read your thread. I also use Digital Xover, (Behringer DCX 2496) in my config with 6 x class D amp from mutichannel input ICEpower amp (from Pioneer amp series). I just received a package from Parts Express today with my passive components, my speaker will have option of normal passive Xover.
I am very interested in your design, I hope you can get a good deal on your scanspeaks!
BTW, as far as bass is concerned I my reflex 10" Seas does definitely go down to 30Hz flat in 100L reflex box. I will verify this with a trace perhaps this weekend.
I am very interested in your design, I hope you can get a good deal on your scanspeaks!
BTW, as far as bass is concerned I my reflex 10" Seas does definitely go down to 30Hz flat in 100L reflex box. I will verify this with a trace perhaps this weekend.
Hey Audible1 sounds like you have an interesting project going there, not sure why you would want to have a passive option when you have an active crossover, unless you are using the active to determine the best type of crossover and then going to create passive?
Managed to change my order so now getting 6 of the 8 ohm and 4 of the 4 ohm… will use the 8 ohm in parallel to drive them at 4 ohm. Hoping that they will still have the same frequency response attributes of the 4 ohm drivers.
Organised a new microphone, so will be setup to start doing some testing soon. Lots of reading to be done to find out how to use the active crossover, microphone etc.
Dabbler I like neutral, so I am hoping they sound similar to the 18W Revelator drivers I have in the Cremona’s. That was half the reason I was looking at the Audio Technology drivers, apparently the paper driver still adds some colour to the driver even though it’s not a lot.
I am hoping that the paper of the ScanSpeak helps balance out the metal of the Raal.
Really is a lot of guess work going on here...
Managed to change my order so now getting 6 of the 8 ohm and 4 of the 4 ohm… will use the 8 ohm in parallel to drive them at 4 ohm. Hoping that they will still have the same frequency response attributes of the 4 ohm drivers.
Organised a new microphone, so will be setup to start doing some testing soon. Lots of reading to be done to find out how to use the active crossover, microphone etc.
Dabbler I like neutral, so I am hoping they sound similar to the 18W Revelator drivers I have in the Cremona’s. That was half the reason I was looking at the Audio Technology drivers, apparently the paper driver still adds some colour to the driver even though it’s not a lot.
I am hoping that the paper of the ScanSpeak helps balance out the metal of the Raal.
Really is a lot of guess work going on here...
Hi Silent,
I have made my speakers active / passive so I can use them with ordinary amps and valve gear. I doubt that the passive version of my speaker will perform as well as the active, but there is always the option to change it over. For that, I am getting double binding posts for each of the woofer, mid and tweets, so I can bypass the passive components out.
I have been using a digital crossover for a couple of months now, also with phase alignment and I have a dayton omnimic (for frequency/ phase / distortion etc). Let me know if I can help you with it. I am keen to know some people who like building speakers (and having fun with them) in Sydney.
BTW, I used to make copied Watt/ Puppies with 18W drivers. Nice, but I think a little overdamped. Used in a lot of high end speakers.
Greg
I have made my speakers active / passive so I can use them with ordinary amps and valve gear. I doubt that the passive version of my speaker will perform as well as the active, but there is always the option to change it over. For that, I am getting double binding posts for each of the woofer, mid and tweets, so I can bypass the passive components out.
I have been using a digital crossover for a couple of months now, also with phase alignment and I have a dayton omnimic (for frequency/ phase / distortion etc). Let me know if I can help you with it. I am keen to know some people who like building speakers (and having fun with them) in Sydney.
BTW, I used to make copied Watt/ Puppies with 18W drivers. Nice, but I think a little overdamped. Used in a lot of high end speakers.
Greg
Thanks audible1... might pick your brains if I run into trouble with the microphone.
Been away for the last week having a holiday in Queensland. While I was there I spent a bit of time doodling some designs and picking up some more audio equipment.
Might look a bit strange, but the more I think about it the more I like it.
I am looking to isolate the mid and tweeter from the thumping of the bass from the woofer, the stand won't touch the cabinet below.
Still some finishing touches to be done but it's nearly there...
Been away for the last week having a holiday in Queensland. While I was there I spent a bit of time doodling some designs and picking up some more audio equipment.
Might look a bit strange, but the more I think about it the more I like it.
I am looking to isolate the mid and tweeter from the thumping of the bass from the woofer, the stand won't touch the cabinet below.
Still some finishing touches to be done but it's nearly there...
Attachments
Audible.. do you think phase alignment is a must for nearfield listening .. I'm looking to buy the minidsp but it's IIR crossovers so linear phase gonna be mostly impossible.. wonder how to do at least minimun phase with it..
audible: what do you think of this analog phase linear crossover
CO3 Three Band Phase-Linear Crossover Filter Kit (Bass, Mid-range, and Treble)_Filter_Accessories Kit_Analog Metric - DIY Audio Kit
CO3 PRO Three Band Phase-Linear Crossover Filter Kit (Bass, Mid-range, and Treble)_Filter_Accessories Kit_Analog Metric - DIY Audio Kit
might go this way instead of minidsp.. wish i could implement this crossover in dsp since it's should be possible.
what do you think?
also, on the site is written
Applications
1. For professional bi-amp or tri-amp applications, it requires exactly the same response time for the bass, mid-range, and treble frequency components.
what do you think they mean by saying " it requires exactly the same response time for all drivers"
Are they talking about impulse or FR or something else? maybe time-alignment of the drivers?
what i really like about this analog option is that latency would be reduce compare to digital crossover.. also it seems mostly simple to build. + possibility to use a good dac and one preamp before the crossover(wonder if this would affect sound in bad ways)??
Wish the AD797 would be 100-150$ cheaper
Also i wonder if I would save by just buying the board and order all the components myself.
I'm afraid the 4 volume control since not passive might have an bad effect on the sound but it might be better than digital volume control of the minidsp 2x8 anyway.
Maybe replacing the 4 volume control with a stepped passive volume controls would do the trick
An interesting aspect of this would be that my amp could be without cheap volume control
I know i'm the guy with tons of questions!! i'm in kinda never ending learning loop
what do you think they mean by saying " it requires exactly the same response time for all drivers"
Are they talking about impulse or FR or something else? maybe time-alignment of the drivers?
what i really like about this analog option is that latency would be reduce compare to digital crossover.. also it seems mostly simple to build. + possibility to use a good dac and one preamp before the crossover(wonder if this would affect sound in bad ways)??
Wish the AD797 would be 100-150$ cheaper
Also i wonder if I would save by just buying the board and order all the components myself.
I'm afraid the 4 volume control since not passive might have an bad effect on the sound but it might be better than digital volume control of the minidsp 2x8 anyway.
Maybe replacing the 4 volume control with a stepped passive volume controls would do the trick
An interesting aspect of this would be that my amp could be without cheap volume control
I know i'm the guy with tons of questions!!
i'm in kinda never ending learning loop
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Hi Silent,
We are having a DIY GTG on 29th April at my house in Castle Hill NSW
Sydney DIY show.. - StereoNET Australia
Would be great if you want to meet some others with an interest in DIY.
Your pictures look like a really complex cabinet, how are you going to get the curved baffles done?
Hi DjSinae, I am not a pro but have had an interest in audio for a long while.
I have found that the sound is definitely better when time aligned. Interestingly, I have just completed the time alignment (with Dayton omnimic) this weekend of my 3 way 2nd order Linkwitz Riley xover for my new speaker. The midrange needed to be moved back 75mm and phase inverted, and the tweeter is 95mm back from the bass (in phase). It definitely does sound better.
As far as electronic xovers, I suggest you get a digital xover such as the behringer which is really quite cheap. The only problem with it is that it has only analog outputs and you need a multichannel volume control. Of course, if you want to run valves, you have a big problem because you will have a room full of light bulbs!!! That is why I am using a good quality digital receiver for that function.
Greg
We are having a DIY GTG on 29th April at my house in Castle Hill NSW
Sydney DIY show.. - StereoNET Australia
Would be great if you want to meet some others with an interest in DIY.
Your pictures look like a really complex cabinet, how are you going to get the curved baffles done?
Hi DjSinae, I am not a pro but have had an interest in audio for a long while.
I have found that the sound is definitely better when time aligned. Interestingly, I have just completed the time alignment (with Dayton omnimic) this weekend of my 3 way 2nd order Linkwitz Riley xover for my new speaker. The midrange needed to be moved back 75mm and phase inverted, and the tweeter is 95mm back from the bass (in phase). It definitely does sound better.
As far as electronic xovers, I suggest you get a digital xover such as the behringer which is really quite cheap. The only problem with it is that it has only analog outputs and you need a multichannel volume control. Of course, if you want to run valves, you have a big problem because you will have a room full of light bulbs!!! That is why I am using a good quality digital receiver for that function.
Greg
Would need to check the date but sounds good.
I expect that it will be far easier than it looks... Yes it looks quite complex but could be done with minimal effort.
Imagine a loaf of bread with the slices side by side. My slices will be 25mm MDF stacked width ways and vertical.
Using a router I bought recently I intend to use a couple of templates to shape the cavities. End plates will be the same as the filling without the extra cut outs.
In the top section you can see the actual speaker cavity with some additonal cosmetic cavities to reduce weight and give the outside shape I'm chasing.
I expect that it will be far easier than it looks... Yes it looks quite complex but could be done with minimal effort.
Imagine a loaf of bread with the slices side by side. My slices will be 25mm MDF stacked width ways and vertical.
Using a router I bought recently I intend to use a couple of templates to shape the cavities. End plates will be the same as the filling without the extra cut outs.
In the top section you can see the actual speaker cavity with some additonal cosmetic cavities to reduce weight and give the outside shape I'm chasing.
Have been slowly developing the template for my mid / tweeter box. I probably should have given some more thought to the port placement before now, but it isn't terribly hard to change... The cavity shape shown in the photo isn't going to be the final shape.
My question is would it be too detremental if I have the port go the width of the cabinet do a U turn come back and exit via the back of the cabinet?
The two mids will be slightly offset from centre and the tweeter offset the other side of centre, that give me sufficent space between the mids and the side of the cabinet to give it a generous curve.
Between the top and bottom mids there will be a passage like the cone of silence from Get Smart, in the middle of that passage will be the port exit.
The port will run across the back of the speaker cabinet to nearly the end go up and then come back parrallel to the first then exit via the rear of the cabinet.
My question is would it be too detremental if I have the port go the width of the cabinet do a U turn come back and exit via the back of the cabinet?
The two mids will be slightly offset from centre and the tweeter offset the other side of centre, that give me sufficent space between the mids and the side of the cabinet to give it a generous curve.
Between the top and bottom mids there will be a passage like the cone of silence from Get Smart, in the middle of that passage will be the port exit.
The port will run across the back of the speaker cabinet to nearly the end go up and then come back parrallel to the first then exit via the rear of the cabinet.
Attachments
Various reasons:
The first is closed requires heavy fill where as vented is minimal and with such a small chamber I don't want the fill falling into the back of the driver if moved around.
I could glue a light fill to the chamber walls and use a better type of fill material like that wave foam.
Vented gives me a bit bigger chamber volume which allows a bit more clearance around the cone.
Scan Speak recommend vented which is based on the driver parameters so best to go with manufacutures recommendations.
My current mids are vented where as the speakers I built before were sealed and I didn't particularly like the sound (granted different drivers)...
The pic shows the response of both, besides the higher crossover point the sealed tapers off more in the lower frequencies.
What I have been reading around 200Hz would be a more ideal crossover into some larger drivers.
The first is closed requires heavy fill where as vented is minimal and with such a small chamber I don't want the fill falling into the back of the driver if moved around.
I could glue a light fill to the chamber walls and use a better type of fill material like that wave foam.
Vented gives me a bit bigger chamber volume which allows a bit more clearance around the cone.
Scan Speak recommend vented which is based on the driver parameters so best to go with manufacutures recommendations.
My current mids are vented where as the speakers I built before were sealed and I didn't particularly like the sound (granted different drivers)...
The pic shows the response of both, besides the higher crossover point the sealed tapers off more in the lower frequencies.
What I have been reading around 200Hz would be a more ideal crossover into some larger drivers.
Attachments
Might be possible to do, provided the top and bottom of the tweeter isn’t exposed to the top and bottom cavities (which I got a feeling they might be, but I would question the gain, the Raal is encased in some kind of cast steel on all sides, going off the weight I would guess roughly 6mm thick. Certainly can look at partially isolating it from the mids.
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