Steve, Andy
This issue is controversial, but it is definitely noticed by a lot of subjectivists, and I put a lot of credibility in their views. I certainly believe Eric, he is very methodical. Actually, I listen to the subjectivists as carefully as the objectivists; all people have their prejudices, and rationale and belief rarely meet. Hifi is full of folk lore, like health, automobiles, and art, and I have to like to get to the truth. Obviously it is in my interest to listen to every view, keep an open mind, and then carefully examine each.
Ensuring correct phasing is not easy when you consider which start or finish of the wiring should be active or neutral. Either/or, if two toroids are used, starts and finish should be consistent for each toroid.
Please both hold your responses here until Steve and I will do this little test very soon!
Cheers,
Hugh
This issue is controversial, but it is definitely noticed by a lot of subjectivists, and I put a lot of credibility in their views. I certainly believe Eric, he is very methodical. Actually, I listen to the subjectivists as carefully as the objectivists; all people have their prejudices, and rationale and belief rarely meet. Hifi is full of folk lore, like health, automobiles, and art, and I have to like to get to the truth. Obviously it is in my interest to listen to every view, keep an open mind, and then carefully examine each.
Ensuring correct phasing is not easy when you consider which start or finish of the wiring should be active or neutral. Either/or, if two toroids are used, starts and finish should be consistent for each toroid.
Please both hold your responses here until Steve and I will do this little test very soon!
Cheers,
Hugh
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Absolutely, Hugh.
Having the one power transformer for NAKSAs makes life easy, compared to the 2 transformers in your older power amps, and in the GK-1/GK-2. I will be interested in the results you report on your tests. Me, I just listen to what other people say - and if I can see it's a good idea or there's logic in it, I adopt it.
Regards,
Andy
Hi Andy, Hugh,
I missed Hugh's post while writing, so will revise.
Not hard to identify "A" and "N" in incoming ac power.
Most transformer manufacturer's identify which end of power transformer goes to A and N.
I suppose I am not in the subjectivist camp on this one, but eagerly await your results.
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I never seen this, Steve. The trannies I've bought from Harbuch certainly haven't had any indication which should be 'A'.
Regards,
Andy
Yes you are right - I'm making them there at the moment and the standard build with flex leads are both orange. I've bought a range of others over the past few years and most have blue/brown on the primary.
It's interesting though as an engineer would say it don't matter - it's jut a series of loops of wire - non directional - but with audio it's never straightforward
I guess I'm in luck, since primaries on my trannies are clearly colour-coded, even with the correct colours used here (brown for phase, blue for neutral).
However, isn't there a second issue here? What about the phasing of the secondaries?
I'm thinking that if phasing of the primaries is important, then the phasing of the secondaries must be important as well ...
Any thoughts, anyone?
Cheers,
Jens
However, isn't there a second issue here? What about the phasing of the secondaries?
I'm thinking that if phasing of the primaries is important, then the phasing of the secondaries must be important as well ...
Any thoughts, anyone?
Cheers,
Jens
Hi Jens,
Yes, I looked into this, and Eric moved them around too. His findings are that it makes no difference, probably because their interwinding is very small and voltage low, the issue seems to be a differential winding capacitor to ground from each wire - start and finish. At the higher voltage of 240Vac, this makes a difference apparently.
We can be relieved with the secondaries!
Cheers,
Hugh
Yes, I looked into this, and Eric moved them around too. His findings are that it makes no difference, probably because their interwinding is very small and voltage low, the issue seems to be a differential winding capacitor to ground from each wire - start and finish. At the higher voltage of 240Vac, this makes a difference apparently.
We can be relieved with the secondaries!
Cheers,
Hugh
True, Harbuch does not label the windings. I remember asking Hugh about which wires were which, when I used Harbuch for my first Aksa 10 years ago.
But Avel Lindberg, Triad, Tortech and Antek have labels for each winding, and I use those now.
Hi Hugh,
Since I do not have an enclosure for my NAKSA 80s (they are mounted directly on the rear of my Equilibrium speakers), I wonder where I should measure?
I note that on the N80 PCB there is a lug marked "Chassis". Would you recommend connecting that to true earth?
I already have the heatsinks connected to true earth, so it would be a simple matter connecting the lug to the heatsink with a short piece of wire.
Is that the way to go?
Cheers,
Jens
Since I do not have an enclosure for my NAKSA 80s (they are mounted directly on the rear of my Equilibrium speakers), I wonder where I should measure?
I note that on the N80 PCB there is a lug marked "Chassis". Would you recommend connecting that to true earth?
I already have the heatsinks connected to true earth, so it would be a simple matter connecting the lug to the heatsink with a short piece of wire.
Is that the way to go?
Cheers,
Jens
Hi Jens,
If you want to measure the voltage between the wall socket earth and 'something' (normally the chassis), to decide whether your power trannie is connected the correct way round ... please remember the power transformer is supposed to not be connected to mains earth (temporarily) for this measurement.
So connecting the lug to the heatsink with a short piece of wire will probably not work (if the heatsinks are connected to true earth). But I can't suggest which point you should take a measurement at, given you have no chassis.
Good luck,
Andy
Right - my trannies are well marked with different colours for each wire and have a legend on the label. I would expect the wire mentioned first to be mains live, especially since the colour coding coincides with the correct colour coding (brown for live, blue for neutral).
It still leaves the question whether - in general - "Chassis" should be connected to TRUE earth.
Hugh?
Cheers,
Jens
It still leaves the question whether - in general - "Chassis" should be connected to TRUE earth.
Hugh?
Cheers,
Jens
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... and - I guess - whether it makes any difference when you don't have a chassis
Cheers,
Jens
... and - I guess - whether it makes any difference when you don't have a chassis
Cheers,
Jens
Yes, you certainly are in an "out of the ordinary" situation, Jens, by not having a chassis to contain the transformer(s) and module(s).
However, the "voltage measurement" method is only a way of ensuring the primary is connected the right way round. There is always the listening comparison, when using the 'normal' and 'reversed' power cords that Hugh is going to do.
(Then you re-wire the trannie, if needs be.)I'm positive there will be a sonic benefit in your situation, re. the correct orientation of the power trannie primary wires wrt 'A' and 'N' but, given that for a normal "chassis-build" of an AKSA amp, the signal earth is not connected to the chassis (which is connected to mains earth via the ground pin on the IEC socket), there is no point connecting the "Chassis" lug on the N80 PCB to mains earth, to do the measurement.
I look forward to hearing about your listening comparisons.
Regards,
Andy
Bound For Sound - AC Polarity Tweak
Andy,
Thanks for the reference - after a little internet sleuthing, I was able to capture the content of the original Bound For Sound article on AC Polarity. I have put the contents into a tidy little PDF so that we can all benefit from the whole content of the original article. Click on attachment below for your very own copy of this tweak article.
Regards,
Edward
Andy,
Thanks for the reference - after a little internet sleuthing, I was able to capture the content of the original Bound For Sound article on AC Polarity. I have put the contents into a tidy little PDF so that we can all benefit from the whole content of the original article. Click on attachment below for your very own copy of this tweak article.
Regards,
Edward
Yes, you certainly are in an "out of the ordinary" situation, Jens, by not having a chassis to contain the transformer(s) and module(s).
However, the "voltage measurement" method is only a way of ensuring the primary is connected the right way round. There is always the listening comparison, when using the 'normal' and 'reversed' power cords that Hugh is going to do.
I'm positive there will be a sonic benefit in your situation, re. the correct orientation of the power trannie primary wires wrt 'A' and 'N' but, given that for a normal "chassis-build" of an AKSA amp, the signal earth is not connected to the chassis (which is connected to mains earth via the ground pin on the IEC socket), there is no point connecting the "Chassis" lug on the N80 PCB to mains earth, to do the measurement.
I look forward to hearing about your listening comparisons.
Regards,
Andy
Just read the article that Ed was kind enough to upload for us all - thanks Ed!
I can see that what I really need to do is to measure the voltage difference between the N80 "chassis" lug and my true earth mains connection with my mains plug in "normal" and "reversed" position and reverse tranny mains leads, if the "normal" position gives the highest voltage.
Right now the "Chassis" lug is not connected to anything, but after I have tried the above, I will connect it to the heatsink (which is connected directly to mains true earth).
I already have the two N100s on each speaker connected that way, had just forgotten that
Cheers,
Jens
Just read the article that Ed was kind enough to upload for us all - thanks Ed!
I can see that what I really need to do is to measure the voltage difference between the N80 "chassis" lug and my true earth mains connection with my mains plug in "normal" and "reversed" position and reverse tranny mains leads, if the "normal" position gives the highest voltage.
Right now the "Chassis" lug is not connected to anything, but after I have tried the above, I will connect it to the heatsink (which is connected directly to mains true earth).
I already have the two N100s on each speaker connected that way, had just forgotten that
Cheers,
Jens
If you are going to measure the voltage between the N80 "chassis" lug and your true earth mains connection, with the mains plug in "normal" and "reversed" position and then reverse tranny mains leads, if the "normal" position gives the higher voltage ... remember, the article stresses that:
* the power wire to the unit needs to have the earth connection removed (I put a double-adaptor with the earth lug removed, between the power cord and the wall-plug), and
* all other wires (power and signal) need to be disconnected.
Regards,
Andy
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