I have been living happily with a pair of 12LTA's for a while now.
They live in a 3cft cabinet with a fostex FT17H dealing out high freq from about 8khz upwards with a single cap inline. On the lower end an Eminence Beta 15 on each side in about 10cft with its own sub amp.
The 12LTA has had its basked damped with decorators caulk, the dust cap cut out and replaced with wooden phase plugs.
Now my other half has requested a "smaller cabinet with the same drivers"
Here's a piccys of the 'little' speakers that need to be shrunk
They live in a 3cft cabinet with a fostex FT17H dealing out high freq from about 8khz upwards with a single cap inline. On the lower end an Eminence Beta 15 on each side in about 10cft with its own sub amp.
The 12LTA has had its basked damped with decorators caulk, the dust cap cut out and replaced with wooden phase plugs.
Now my other half has requested a "smaller cabinet with the same drivers"
Here's a piccys of the 'little' speakers that need to be shrunk
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Ideas that the wife likes the look of.
The first image would have the 12LTA and FT17H in the face and 15inch Beta on the back. Maybe put an angle on the rear to give a bit more volume. Separate internal enclosures for each driver with the Beta 15 getting the majority of the volume.
The second would see a single Beta 15 firing forward in a narrow cabinet (16/17inches) with the 12LTA in a separate 'head' enclosure.
From building the previous speakers in this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179161-beta-12lta-3cf-box-port-size.html I know that the Beta 15 will be plenty happy in 4cft and the 12LTA seems to be ok in 1.5-2cft. So shrinking them down is not a issue
The first image would have the 12LTA and FT17H in the face and 15inch Beta on the back. Maybe put an angle on the rear to give a bit more volume. Separate internal enclosures for each driver with the Beta 15 getting the majority of the volume.
The second would see a single Beta 15 firing forward in a narrow cabinet (16/17inches) with the 12LTA in a separate 'head' enclosure.
From building the previous speakers in this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179161-beta-12lta-3cf-box-port-size.html I know that the Beta 15 will be plenty happy in 4cft and the 12LTA seems to be ok in 1.5-2cft. So shrinking them down is not a issue
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Room position: Speakers will be 5ft from the rear wall, firing into about 15ft of space, not too close to side walls.
I have just the one question which I could use some expertise.
If I go for the single unit with the beta 15 firing backwards they will be crossed in at about 80hz so from my limited knowledge thats not really directional. Will there be issues with the LOW bass integration?
I have just the one question which I could use some expertise.
If I go for the single unit with the beta 15 firing backwards they will be crossed in at about 80hz so from my limited knowledge thats not really directional. Will there be issues with the LOW bass integration?
From what I understand 80hz will be plenty low enough to make integration seemless, and in any case since you've got stereo subs (in a sense I think you've made the largest F.A.S.T. this forum has ever seen) I think you have a wider margin of error in this regard. In fact, if you put the beta in front then you could cross yet higher and perhaps the 12LTA could live with even less enclosure volume...
I think what you've built already is perfect enough. Having said that i can understand why your wife would like something smaller (that sounds funny). Looking at your first pic i would suggest simply slimming the cabinet down by lopping off the sides. Make the front baffle 17" wide and center align the drivers. You can keep two boxes (or three) or make one box. Would have to noodle around with the box volumes but i'd suggest the 12lta in a small sealed and the 15" in the largest you can make within limitations.
Looking at your second pic with the box on a stand i can imagine the 15" facing downward and keeping a simple two-way look of the 12lta plus tweeter visible. This may create bass loading problems but since you have separate amps powering them it might not be as big a challenge.
Another suggestion would be something like this:
Endorphine from Kingston Kitchen
Looking at your second pic with the box on a stand i can imagine the 15" facing downward and keeping a simple two-way look of the 12lta plus tweeter visible. This may create bass loading problems but since you have separate amps powering them it might not be as big a challenge.
Another suggestion would be something like this:
Endorphine from Kingston Kitchen
I just think folks want to hear how it sounds in ob also. The driver works in ported and sealed and i read enough about it in ob to try it and expect good results. I expect you can win in many ways with this driver but it requires big boxes/baffles and you still need bass and treble support. Otherwise, it's 'one' way to achieve 97db, wide range from mid bass to low treble and sounds mighty fine with a few tweaks. Btw, i LOVE the way the phase plugs smooth things out... it's almost too smooth.
I also have a couple of expensive TB 1808s that are selling for over $300 a piece now... and some older Fostex 168 Sigmas that cost over $120 each... both requiring a bit of help on top and bottom to get right. I'd take the lowly, ugly 12lta any day. It sounds different for certain... but to me, it sounds better.
My open baffle setup should be done (tho unfinished) tonight and setup in my system by tomorrow.
I also have a couple of expensive TB 1808s that are selling for over $300 a piece now... and some older Fostex 168 Sigmas that cost over $120 each... both requiring a bit of help on top and bottom to get right. I'd take the lowly, ugly 12lta any day. It sounds different for certain... but to me, it sounds better.
My open baffle setup should be done (tho unfinished) tonight and setup in my system by tomorrow.
Alnico Saba Speakers Endorphine P21
Here's the link i wanted to show originally. It's the same idea as the one above but the designer went smaller. To accommodate your wife she may appreciate this. Will report back on ob sound with 12lta within a day or two. But i can envision two ob's in the corners of your room just like in the link. I can also envision two slender sealed cabs sporting the same drivers. I doubt either would sound less than stellar considering the components. There will be a way to wire it all up properly!
My ob's will sit on top of the H-frames and will match their 19.25" width.
Here's the link i wanted to show originally. It's the same idea as the one above but the designer went smaller. To accommodate your wife she may appreciate this. Will report back on ob sound with 12lta within a day or two. But i can envision two ob's in the corners of your room just like in the link. I can also envision two slender sealed cabs sporting the same drivers. I doubt either would sound less than stellar considering the components. There will be a way to wire it all up properly!
My ob's will sit on top of the H-frames and will match their 19.25" width.
I've got to say though that this design is my favourite. I love the simplicity of it. The actual product is 1200mm tall (inc stand) x 500mm wide x 350mm deep.
Heres a piccy to give some idea of scale - the wifey REALLy likes this btw
better give credit to the maker - its trenner & fiedl's RA box. There are a couple of comments about their golden ratio cut Swarovsky crystal disperser on the supertweter. Thats on the 2nd image I posted originally
Heres a piccy to give some idea of scale - the wifey REALLy likes this btw
better give credit to the maker - its trenner & fiedl's RA box. There are a couple of comments about their golden ratio cut Swarovsky crystal disperser on the supertweter. Thats on the 2nd image I posted originally
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Ok, with some 'rough' measuring work (taken the given height of 1200mm measured the speakers height in the picture) and worked out its
825 H x 500 W x 350 D = 144375 ccm meaning the enclosure would be about 5cft not taking into account bracing or wall thickness
Zilla in post #28 on the original thread you winISD'd 2 2.5cft vented enclosures and a 10cft vented enclosure. The 10cft was flat to 40hz!!!
The speakers pictured above are vented downwards (like you thought of early on).
825 H x 500 W x 350 D = 144375 ccm meaning the enclosure would be about 5cft not taking into account bracing or wall thickness
Zilla in post #28 on the original thread you winISD'd 2 2.5cft vented enclosures and a 10cft vented enclosure. The 10cft was flat to 40hz!!!
The speakers pictured above are vented downwards (like you thought of early on).
JRKO, I don't have access to my old pc with winISD... life has gotten complicated for me as of late. In fact i am typing from a new Macbook Pro that doesn't run winISD. Question... are you going to use the 15" driver or just the 12lta in a large ported box? Personally, i like the simple look of the box your wife likes too. Question is, how to hide that large a woofer?
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_15A_cab.pdf
Maybe that helps (you are using this driver right?). You could even email Eminence for a quick vent size comparison in the box size you desire. My head is spinning with design ideas for you... maybe a 14" wide cab with the 12lta and tweeter on front. Depth of box maybe around 18" to house a side firing 15" powered woofer...
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_15A_cab.pdf
Maybe that helps (you are using this driver right?). You could even email Eminence for a quick vent size comparison in the box size you desire. My head is spinning with design ideas for you... maybe a 14" wide cab with the 12lta and tweeter on front. Depth of box maybe around 18" to house a side firing 15" powered woofer...
12lta on ob sounds excellent! Less congested and less 'boxy' sounding. I'd say in a sealed box the 12lta sounds a bit thicker thru the lower mids. My son and wife both think on ob the sound is more realistic and 'in the room' compared to sealed. Vocals are better for sure on ob. Still listening but these are my initial impressions after listening to Bruce Springstein, Billy Joel, Beatles, Lady Gaga and Simon and Garfunkel.
The H-frames are about a foot and a half from the rear wall and a foot from the side wall. The ob's are sitting on top. They look like little easels. I will post pics in a day or so. I need to listen some more but listening for about an hour today left me with a very favorable impression. Wife said to me over dinner they both sound good but it's a matter of personal preference.
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