Were at a point now where the real differences between FR drivers are frequently about dispersion and distortion, not frequency response.
I've been playing around with the Jordan JX92S. I think they are great, except for off access high frequency.
Myself, I don't think that FR is the place to look for econo drivers. The "value point" is in two way, IMO. I'm surprised daily that people will do huge cabinet builds with BB around a single $45 driver.
But again, I had no reason to be negative about the Burro venture. It's fun to play with this stuff, and it can't hurt to have more people making drivers. My concern is too many FR cabinet design and not enough detail testing and thinking.
I've been playing around with the Jordan JX92S. I think they are great, except for off access high frequency.
Myself, I don't think that FR is the place to look for econo drivers. The "value point" is in two way, IMO. I'm surprised daily that people will do huge cabinet builds with BB around a single $45 driver.
But again, I had no reason to be negative about the Burro venture. It's fun to play with this stuff, and it can't hurt to have more people making drivers. My concern is too many FR cabinet design and not enough detail testing and thinking.
>>> My concern is too many FR cabinet design and not enough detail testing and thinking.
A few years ago it was the opposite. There will be more drivers and more designs coming. That's a good thing IMO because we can play around and discover new things.
I want a Betsy in an OB!
http://www.sonicflare.com/_audio_a2...images_side.jpg
http://www.toneimports.com/auditori...mages/svox3.gif
Maybe a Betsy can be used in a poor man version of the Solo Vox?
Godzilla
A few years ago it was the opposite. There will be more drivers and more designs coming. That's a good thing IMO because we can play around and discover new things.
I want a Betsy in an OB!
http://www.sonicflare.com/_audio_a2...images_side.jpg
http://www.toneimports.com/auditori...mages/svox3.gif
Maybe a Betsy can be used in a poor man version of the Solo Vox?
Godzilla
Locals are certainly welcome to stop by, so long as you aren't offended by unfinished plywood. Maybe this will be the spring I get the BIB's outside and finish them! My OB's are quick and dirty prototypes. I should make a decent looking set. Maybe once I get the tube amp done. It's my first point-to-point, and I'm drawing out parts layout as we speak. And if I could only get my turntable to run the correct speed . . .
Thank you all for the encouragement. 'Zilla, I don't know if you remember, but my first fullrange thoughts came from a discussion with you over at AA. Prior to that I was listening to some "budget" two ways. And of course, my BIB enclosures are something Scott sim'd early on in the BIB thread. One of the reasons I'm trying to keep the margin well lower than the industry standard is that I know you two, Greg, Dave, Eli Duttman and others have given me and others countless hours of free advice. I do want to do this as a member of the DIY community, not an outsider profiting from it.
All should feel free to share their thoughts about future versions of these drivers. I haven't asked for price quotes yet, but AlNiCo is a very real possibility. I'm sure I could order a few without whizzers, for example. Of course, the mass would be lower, and it'd be more of a midrange. There is a little more interest in the BetsyK than I expected. I may see about a version with lower compliance, but the Fs would go up.
pj
http://www.wildburroaudio.com
Thank you all for the encouragement. 'Zilla, I don't know if you remember, but my first fullrange thoughts came from a discussion with you over at AA. Prior to that I was listening to some "budget" two ways. And of course, my BIB enclosures are something Scott sim'd early on in the BIB thread. One of the reasons I'm trying to keep the margin well lower than the industry standard is that I know you two, Greg, Dave, Eli Duttman and others have given me and others countless hours of free advice. I do want to do this as a member of the DIY community, not an outsider profiting from it.
All should feel free to share their thoughts about future versions of these drivers. I haven't asked for price quotes yet, but AlNiCo is a very real possibility. I'm sure I could order a few without whizzers, for example. Of course, the mass would be lower, and it'd be more of a midrange. There is a little more interest in the BetsyK than I expected. I may see about a version with lower compliance, but the Fs would go up.
pj
http://www.wildburroaudio.com
re:future versions - could Qes lowered without upsetting the mid-treble balance? - that could reduce some enclosure's bulk - my pc is so messed up that won't run WinISD - here's what AJ thinks of BetsyK in 84 liters - not sure of AJ is good for BR (it does BIB sims alright)
alnico would be cool for BetsyA
alnico would be cool for BetsyA
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dzzmiller said:
I think cabinet building is, for many folks, especially young ones, the most intimidating part of speaker building. I can build a chip amp with some soldering tools, a drill and a screwdriver. Even a basic bass reflex takes a couple of saws, a couple of sawhorses, and some space where you can make a mess. Most lumber suppliers won't guarantee cuts to be closer than 1/8" to your spec, and that is not good enough to build a box. It is plenty good enough for an OB.
The idea here is to create speakers that anybody could build. Once folks get their feet wet and hear some diy speakers, I think they'll be much more likely to engage in more complicated endeavors, be they gigantic double mouth horns with fullrange drivers or multiways with double thick MDF sidewalls and tons of bracing.
Don't confuse entry level build or entry level price with entry level sound either. Used within their displacement limitations, I think that these will run with seriously expensive competition. Once someone is ready to move beyond an easy build, active biamping and helper woofers are possibility.
pj
planet10 said:
Similarly, access to Terry Cain's shop and advice was invaluable during my initial formative period - even though the third box I built was out of my college apartment's kitchen...which happened to be outfitted with a table saw.
I have been meaning to start or contribute to some sort of tutorial for people interested in learning the casual woodwork it takes to get a pair of DIY enclosures made. It is not that difficult. To get things sounding and looking pretty enough to sell as a commercial product is a whole different can of worms to open up. But I wish people did not feel as much of a psychological barrier to simply making something themselves even if the aesthetic outcome is not to the nth degree of perfection.
To quote my grandfather, when he was giving advice on accomplishing any task, (and I assume no liability for the outcome)
"Just put the saw in the wood."
-Clark
Scottmoose said:
I'm speaking of how the budget for a build is spent. For example, using Baltic Birch but not considering a $100 or $150 driver. How many people have binding posts that cost as much as the driver?
Not that more expensive drivers are always better. But there is certainly a positive correlation between price and quality.
It's too bad that someone like Zaph doesn't extensively tests full range drivers.
dzzmiller said:
I assumed you were. Why should they though? The ideal is a high quality driver in a high quality cabinet, but not everyone can afford that. Many people take the view that for a given budget, you'll get better results using a decent quality driver in a well-designed large cabinet than a pricier unit in a smaller box.
Hopefully none. I'm not entirely sure what your point is WRT binding posts / driver price. Binding posts hardly need to be expensive.
One would hope so, but unfortunately, life doesn't always work that way. Look at the frequency response of several supposedly high-end (and certainly high-priced) FR drivers & you will observe that is no better, and in several cases, far worse than some Fostex / AN / whatever units costing 1/10 the price. Now, granted, there is more to life than FR, but you still need to have a reasonable balance or you're fighting an uphill battle from the start.
I'm not sure what might be good for BetsyK - a 1 CF sealed box converted to 3rd order with 350uF cap might work in some instances
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Clark: Thanks for you well wishes. A few months ago I discovered your driver mounting screw/bolt torque advice. Prior to that, I cranked 'em down pretty tight. I'm not sure why barely-to-slightly snug sounds so much better, but I really appreciate the difference.
Freddi: BetsyK is a tough driver to fit with an enclosure. There is a reason I have more Betsys in stock! I think the simplest is a couple cu ft. sealed enclosure with a big, wide baffle placed close to room boundaries. BetsyK is really suited for bigger stuff. I haven't tried a Metronome, but it would be a cool option with a small footprint. Of course, BSC would be mandatory for most folks.
pj
www.wildburroaudio.com
affordable, great sounding fullrange loudspeaker drivers
Freddi: BetsyK is a tough driver to fit with an enclosure. There is a reason I have more Betsys in stock! I think the simplest is a couple cu ft. sealed enclosure with a big, wide baffle placed close to room boundaries. BetsyK is really suited for bigger stuff. I haven't tried a Metronome, but it would be a cool option with a small footprint. Of course, BSC would be mandatory for most folks.
pj
www.wildburroaudio.com
affordable, great sounding fullrange loudspeaker drivers
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