I simmed the SEAS Aphel and it looks a bassy little animal with some peculiar phase response!
You can only try it...
The estimable Mr. Troels Gravesen had some luck with his Seas Based 8" plus 1.5" 8008 Corner design:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/8008-CORNER.htm
Actually looks rather good for a simple series crossover:
An almost perfect 12dB per octave negative polarity LR2 curve! Which is supposed to be a good thing.
No idea if it sounds any good... you need exceptional drivers to pull this sort of thing off! But many ways to skin a cat.
It is worth bearing in mind that passive filters only present impedance problems around the crossover point, so only a couple of octaves are impacted in some filter source impedance sims I have done.
You can only try it...
The estimable Mr. Troels Gravesen had some luck with his Seas Based 8" plus 1.5" 8008 Corner design:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/8008-CORNER.htm
Actually looks rather good for a simple series crossover:
An almost perfect 12dB per octave negative polarity LR2 curve! Which is supposed to be a good thing.
No idea if it sounds any good... you need exceptional drivers to pull this sort of thing off! But many ways to skin a cat.
It is worth bearing in mind that passive filters only present impedance problems around the crossover point, so only a couple of octaves are impacted in some filter source impedance sims I have done.
@Turbowatch2
I agree that dsp in general is superior over passive crossovers. In my horn system i have Audiolense. I have also used Groundsound for many years and have a lot of experience with miniDSP and others. (Btw am only a happy amateur
).
But the main idea with this speaker is that anyone can build and connect it to any amplifier. The driver, DIY cabinet and crossover component cost in total compared to buy a speaker is still very cheep. I cant see that blue Jantzen PP capasitors and the inductors are more expensive than others? To mass produce speakers with more expensive crossover components is another case.
Regarding complexity in crossovers, yes i agree to have it as simple as possible off coarse. But the frequency response MUST be quite smooth and the crossover sum good.
I like the balanced Joe Rasmussen and Lynn Olssons approach. And i have a subjective sceptisism to speaker drivers with nasty breakups who needs a lot of corrections. But thats my «not proffesional» opinion
I like a little dark voicing with body. If the bass is booming in a small and problematic room, just plug the port with foam.
I agree that dsp in general is superior over passive crossovers. In my horn system i have Audiolense. I have also used Groundsound for many years and have a lot of experience with miniDSP and others. (Btw am only a happy amateur
).But the main idea with this speaker is that anyone can build and connect it to any amplifier. The driver, DIY cabinet and crossover component cost in total compared to buy a speaker is still very cheep. I cant see that blue Jantzen PP capasitors and the inductors are more expensive than others? To mass produce speakers with more expensive crossover components is another case.
Regarding complexity in crossovers, yes i agree to have it as simple as possible off coarse. But the frequency response MUST be quite smooth and the crossover sum good.
I like the balanced Joe Rasmussen and Lynn Olssons approach. And i have a subjective sceptisism to speaker drivers with nasty breakups who needs a lot of corrections. But thats my «not proffesional» opinion
I like a little dark voicing with body. If the bass is booming in a small and problematic room, just plug the port with foam.
Last edited:
@superlian's above preference graph just proves that casual listeners prefer tiresome "boom and tizz" in their loudspeakers!
Some commercial models are voiced to cater to that cloth-eared brigade...
You can look this up, but Troels Gravesen's JA8008 HMQ driver, SEAS based, has some tricks up its sleeve.
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/
High QMS, around 10, with a foam surround and fibreglass former and even phase plug making for low loss. You see this in the high Fs peak which compares fibreglass with aluminium former.
Extended frequency response too:
You can disregard the range below 1kHz as a 22cm baffle effect.
To this end, here is a cheap PA speaker, The Faital Pro 8FE200 8 ohm 8" that ticks some of those boxes:
https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=FTP8FE200AF
I have built this sort of thing, and if you excuse a certain lack of bottom end, they are revealing drivers, not dissimilar to Eminence drivers.
The 10" 10FE200 4 ohm got Michael Chua's seal of approval too, though I dislike 4 ohm drivers as amp breakers (An experience familiar to early Cambridge Audio amplifiers):
https://ampslab-spk.com/2021/05/18/10fe200-review/
FWIW, Joachim Gerhard is a fan of high Qms too.
Some commercial models are voiced to cater to that cloth-eared brigade...
You can look this up, but Troels Gravesen's JA8008 HMQ driver, SEAS based, has some tricks up its sleeve.
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/
High QMS, around 10, with a foam surround and fibreglass former and even phase plug making for low loss. You see this in the high Fs peak which compares fibreglass with aluminium former.
Extended frequency response too:
You can disregard the range below 1kHz as a 22cm baffle effect.
To this end, here is a cheap PA speaker, The Faital Pro 8FE200 8 ohm 8" that ticks some of those boxes:
https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=FTP8FE200AF
I have built this sort of thing, and if you excuse a certain lack of bottom end, they are revealing drivers, not dissimilar to Eminence drivers.
The 10" 10FE200 4 ohm got Michael Chua's seal of approval too, though I dislike 4 ohm drivers as amp breakers (An experience familiar to early Cambridge Audio amplifiers):
https://ampslab-spk.com/2021/05/18/10fe200-review/
FWIW, Joachim Gerhard is a fan of high Qms too.
Last edited:
@system7
I like high QMS drivers. I have read a lot of Troels Gravesens articles and know this JA8008 driver. It looks good.
My goal was just to use standard Seas drivers.
But yes, its a lot of PA drivers who sounds marvelous. I made this with Faital 10PR300 4 Ohm and it has some of the qualities i have in my front loaded horn.
I like high QMS drivers. I have read a lot of Troels Gravesens articles and know this JA8008 driver. It looks good.
My goal was just to use standard Seas drivers.
But yes, its a lot of PA drivers who sounds marvelous. I made this with Faital 10PR300 4 Ohm and it has some of the qualities i have in my front loaded horn.
I own the two tweeters. The 27TAC go back in its box. The response curve is not smooth at all, some dips in the high frequency. Less vivid than the 27TBFC. One day I will try again to use them in a project for the third time, a good challenge for me. Seems to be very sensitive to placement on the baffle. Note I replace it sucessfully by the 27dxt in my 2 attempts
The 27TBFCG is a far better choice IMHO.
Nynorsk Overcast, Grieg Gray, Urnes Stavkyrkje, Norge slate, Munch Madness, Ragnar Rocks.
@Arthur Jackson
Yes, thats Norway
And my cabin is in the middle of the Peer Gynt (Henrik Ibsen) area in the mountains in Gudbrandsdalen. I have in fact testet this speaker in my peaceful anechoic chamber. The cabin is off grid so i used TPA3255 amp with solar powered battery and 12-30V buck converter.
Yes, thats Norway
And my cabin is in the middle of the Peer Gynt (Henrik Ibsen) area in the mountains in Gudbrandsdalen. I have in fact testet this speaker in my peaceful anechoic chamber. The cabin is off grid so i used TPA3255 amp with solar powered battery and 12-30V buck converter.