True. It isn't a as stiff as claimed on Denon's spec sheet.
With the Ittok being more like 13 gr (instead of 11.5 gr according to Linn)
one 1 p coin or even none should be fine.
My personal view on the DL103:
At ~ 100 $/€ the DL103 has been an nice cartridge if one was willing to
mate it with a proper SUT or active pre. Today going strongly towards
250 $/€ I personally think there are much better choices both MM and MC.
Bear in mind the Denon still has a simple spherical stylus resulting in an
audibly limited treble response and a resonating plastic body compromising
bass and overall solution. Even more MMs are easily connected to proper
MM pres without that much effort.
I'd clearly prefer Ortofons and ATs in this price range and even older Linn
MMs like the K9 and K18.
If you like, for whatever reason, a low-output moving coil cartridge, then I think it is hard to find much in the same price range. The 103's are available for more like $200, and the least expensive Ortofons are quite a bit more. They are also probably technically superior in quite a few ways, but those old Denons have continued to capture people's imaginations with their sound for decades. And yes, I would much rather own a high-end Ortofon, but they really aren't in the same league at all. The consensus seems to be that you can get good performance from a 103 by replacing the body, the stylus, and the cantilever. Nobody strips the body off Ortofon Cadenza's.
Same with the AT's, their good LOMC's are quite a bit more expensive (and probably more than a bit better).
Same with the AT's, their good LOMC's are quite a bit more expensive (and probably more than a bit better).
Replacing the Body of a 103? My 2 purchases were from ebay, both Ortofon red and the Denon103. I paid a good discounted $ for each, and am quite satisfied even if the sound the 103 is 'different' from my Red! This $ discount does allow me the financial room (albeit other DIY'ers) to try and squeeze out the last of any component! Like all of you I'm sure retail is a cures and insult to our abilities!
That said; How does one replace the body of the 103? LOL
kingfisher
That said; How does one replace the body of the 103? LOL
kingfisher
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That's about what I paid for the 103R. After filling in the gaps between plastic body and magnets with a bit of my magic juice, the resonance in the LVII arm was 8Hz vertical, 11Hz horizontal.
A good vintage I trust!
Seriously, what you have done is probably far better than replacing the body with aftermarket replacements. We used to run these with the joints stiffened up and simply chuck the 'body' out. Put some micropore tape over the works to reduce dust intake. We did the same with the original SPU range - using a pair of graphite bars to give clearance to the 'hump' on top. Both mods put these MCs into a different league - a much higher league.
I posted about this a couple of years or so ago....search button is useful.
I own a number of Ortofon SPUs (LOMC) and yes they are markedly superior to the ZU Denon DL-103 I owned at one point and that got me started on the LOMC trail. Having said that I own or have owned a number of rather more expensive HOMC cartridges and a few MM that are in no sense a match for a stock DL-103 transplanted into a decent body like the Uwe or the Midas (or many of the ones sold on eBay for that matter. ) Pretty hard to go wrong for the money - and don't make the mistake of assuming that a competing cartridge because it costs a lot more necessarily performs even as well as I have not found that to often be the case. The 103 is one of those rare audio bargains in a world where generally the more you pay the better things get, and thus upsets the apple cart.
Hi,
I've always viewed it as a bargain, a great entry into the world of MC carts but at the same a very flawed cartridge.
Let me explain: I can see the attraction of a romantic cartridge in much the same way as I can understand the appeal of SET amps.
Neither of which are accurate. They just sound very pleasing thanks to their distortion spectrum.
At this price range you can't expect a fine line (Shibatu style, VDH or Benz) tip either so detail retrieval is mostly mediocre too.
Even if it had a fine line tip it would still pretty much sound the same and it is also quite fussy about tone arm mass too.
Dunno, it was my entry cart as well but I quickly moved on towards better performers.
And I agree with ticktock, there are MM cartridges out there that run circles around the 103. Assuming you want accuracy that is.
Now, if anyone could redesign the top Decca carts so they'd loose the flaws whilst retaining the magic then that may well leave many a MC cart biting the dust....
Ciao,
I've always viewed it as a bargain, a great entry into the world of MC carts but at the same a very flawed cartridge.
Let me explain: I can see the attraction of a romantic cartridge in much the same way as I can understand the appeal of SET amps.
Neither of which are accurate. They just sound very pleasing thanks to their distortion spectrum.
At this price range you can't expect a fine line (Shibatu style, VDH or Benz) tip either so detail retrieval is mostly mediocre too.
Even if it had a fine line tip it would still pretty much sound the same and it is also quite fussy about tone arm mass too.
Dunno, it was my entry cart as well but I quickly moved on towards better performers.
And I agree with ticktock, there are MM cartridges out there that run circles around the 103. Assuming you want accuracy that is.
Now, if anyone could redesign the top Decca carts so they'd loose the flaws whilst retaining the magic then that may well leave many a MC cart biting the dust....
Ciao,
My comments about the 103 should construed as applying ONLY to ones rehoused in decent bodies, in the stock body it is not something I would want to spend much time listening to. (I have) I am not sure I made that sufficiently clear in previous posts. The differences are not subtle which is why people often go to the trouble of doing this, that said if you have $1K or more to spend it is quite easy to top it. There will always be issues with HF tracking, sibilance and distortion on inner grooves by virtue of the spherical stylus.
Actually, it did, and significantly. 3Hz drop. Added mass will do that for you.
Hi,
Equally, do not let my observations be misconstrued either.
To my mind, and I'm sure that as a reader of L'Audiophile, you know what I mean, not even a stark naked 103 is all that great unless you want to view it in proper perspective.
By which I refer to the actual date Jean Hiraga pretty much declared it to be the MC cart to own.
Sadly enough I did not see the appeal then (and that was in the late Seventies) and I still fail to see it now.
It doesn't really matter what body it is housed in really even tough that may well tame some resonant peaks, it just doesn't retrieve much detail buried in the recording but mainly portrays the same nice romantic rendition of everything you throw at it.
Charming as that may be it is nonetheless miles away from accurate.
To put my remarks in proper perspective, I don't think any Thorens or Garrard or whatever TT from that era was actually all that accurate either (forgive me for saying so).
Very few Linn Sondek LP12s are set up properly and one could still regard it as a glorified Thorens TT I suppose.
And I'd still insist that the pre Valhalla one sound much better anyway...Go figure.
IMHO, the only people that actually studied TT's in depth, and I really mean top to bottom and back are the Levy brothers. (IOW the Goldmund TTs)
True engineering at its best and still much copied and utterly misunderstood to this day.
But I digress. As per usual....
No offense to you Kevin, nor to al DL103 lovers. Just throwing in some perspective from a TT aficionado.
Ciao,
Equally, do not let my observations be misconstrued either.
To my mind, and I'm sure that as a reader of L'Audiophile, you know what I mean, not even a stark naked 103 is all that great unless you want to view it in proper perspective.
By which I refer to the actual date Jean Hiraga pretty much declared it to be the MC cart to own.
Sadly enough I did not see the appeal then (and that was in the late Seventies) and I still fail to see it now.
It doesn't really matter what body it is housed in really even tough that may well tame some resonant peaks, it just doesn't retrieve much detail buried in the recording but mainly portrays the same nice romantic rendition of everything you throw at it.
Charming as that may be it is nonetheless miles away from accurate.
To put my remarks in proper perspective, I don't think any Thorens or Garrard or whatever TT from that era was actually all that accurate either (forgive me for saying so).
Very few Linn Sondek LP12s are set up properly and one could still regard it as a glorified Thorens TT I suppose.
And I'd still insist that the pre Valhalla one sound much better anyway...Go figure.
IMHO, the only people that actually studied TT's in depth, and I really mean top to bottom and back are the Levy brothers. (IOW the Goldmund TTs)
True engineering at its best and still much copied and utterly misunderstood to this day.
But I digress. As per usual....
No offense to you Kevin, nor to al DL103 lovers. Just throwing in some perspective from a TT aficionado.
Ciao,
Hi Frank,
I am wondering whether we are even talking about the same cartridge.. I have heard 1970s edition DL-103 and assumed the lack luster performance was due to age, perhaps it wasn't. The DL-103s I have heard rehoused were anything but romantic, quite dynamic, resolved deeper into the music than any Grado or Shure MM I have heard and are by any definition pretty good cartridges, the good ones I have heard were late production 2010 and later.. I'm wondering whether Denon changed something for the better at some point? I recently gave away my late 1970s vintage DL-103D which was a very romantic and soft sounding cartridge by my standards, this of course is a rare elliptical version with much higher compliance and noticeably better tracking, but otherwise not very interesting to listen to.
I am wondering whether we are even talking about the same cartridge.. I have heard 1970s edition DL-103 and assumed the lack luster performance was due to age, perhaps it wasn't. The DL-103s I have heard rehoused were anything but romantic, quite dynamic, resolved deeper into the music than any Grado or Shure MM I have heard and are by any definition pretty good cartridges, the good ones I have heard were late production 2010 and later.. I'm wondering whether Denon changed something for the better at some point? I recently gave away my late 1970s vintage DL-103D which was a very romantic and soft sounding cartridge by my standards, this of course is a rare elliptical version with much higher compliance and noticeably better tracking, but otherwise not very interesting to listen to.
Hi,
They must have.
Otherwise none of your nor my comments would make any sense.
If so, then one could only whish Denon had the common sense to reflect these changes somehow in the name giving of this cartridge ( given it pretty much put Denon on the MC map).
If they chose not to then I simply suppose they decide to ride on the name and fame of the original design.
Understandable, marketingwise, confusing (as it obviously had me) nonetheless.
In this context, my comments only apply to the original design. I haven't heard the later itinerations bar a VDH tipped one so, obviously if this cartridge outshines the original design by such a large margin then hats off to Denon by all means especially so given the very modest price tag.
Ciao,
They must have.
Otherwise none of your nor my comments would make any sense.
If so, then one could only whish Denon had the common sense to reflect these changes somehow in the name giving of this cartridge ( given it pretty much put Denon on the MC map).
If they chose not to then I simply suppose they decide to ride on the name and fame of the original design.
Understandable, marketingwise, confusing (as it obviously had me) nonetheless.
In this context, my comments only apply to the original design. I haven't heard the later itinerations bar a VDH tipped one so, obviously if this cartridge outshines the original design by such a large margin then hats off to Denon by all means especially so given the very modest price tag.
Ciao,
Look me up next time you are in the Liverpool area. I have a Linn LP12 with Ittok and Troika. Currently Linn speakers, B1 buffer Preamp and Gainclone poweramp. I should have the TT up and running again in a couple of weeks.
I am of the belief you do not need to spend a small fortune to have good sound. You do need to know what components complement each other.
IMO HIFI is all about how good the music sounds to ME. Everyones hearing is different so what sounds fantastic to someone may not sound as good to someone else. My reference is live music, now I know the is NO WAY any pre-recorded music can sound as good as live for many reasons. But isn't the fun of this hobby striving for that almost live performance in my lounge room.
In my experience the 103R is not gentle, to the contrary its forceful but not really resolute, though coherent i.e. makes sense. Only after having a boron rod and line contact profile as a very light moving mass combo there is modern level resolution coming to the plate. But, such carts need a very well sorted out TT and arm to show true merit and that is where the 103R reconfirms itself as a very good choice to start with on an evolving set up. When you will need better, you will know it.
New Crt! Amazing!!!
Thanx a.wayne for reigning us all in. But who here are authorities on sound, subjective or otherwise! I like what I like, and it may not blow your skirt up, but my bloomers I flapping in the wind!
I was going to ask if any out there in this Digital World could answer this analogue question, but merlin el mago answered it! I like the idea of leaving out the plastic body entirely!
kingfisher
Thanx a.wayne for reigning us all in. But who here are authorities on sound, subjective or otherwise! I like what I like, and it may not blow your skirt up, but my bloomers I flapping in the wind!
I was going to ask if any out there in this Digital World could answer this analogue question, but merlin el mago answered it! I like the idea of leaving out the plastic body entirely!
kingfisher
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