I doubt any puzzle coat, etc would touch it.
I think that is really the cone.
Usually a whizzer acts like an anti-phase device before it puts a lot of sound out.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/185012-whizzer-intelligibility.html
meaning, cut it off and the driver's response climbs even more till it peters out.
I think that is really the cone.
Usually a whizzer acts like an anti-phase device before it puts a lot of sound out.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/185012-whizzer-intelligibility.html
meaning, cut it off and the driver's response climbs even more till it peters out.
What cabs did you try the 250tc in? Seems like there's people that really like these drivers and then some don't etc.. Guess that's the way with most stuff though, and especially the various fullranger's etc.
I was watchiing a film from 2006 called The Painted Viel last night. It was perfect and better than our local multiplex cinema. By perfect I mean in the basics of how sound should involve the listener, perfect means that real life doesn't really sound better if we are honest. I then listened to 1927 organ music from the dawn of electrical recording. Also 1938 Richard Tauber film that wasn't rejected for it's sound ( it was rejected in 5 minutes for lack of any story ). All sounded perfectly good, the organ stuning in truth with great depth and some reality of scale ( BBC, The organist entertains ). What I can not understand is how some sound sources are as if superglue has been put in the voice coils. The BBC on radio to my ears gets the voices wrong. The voice is showing chest harmonics and the microphone sound about 2 inches from the presenter ( OK, so that probably is how it is ). Some weeks it is much better. It is as if the gifted producer works that week. Via Spendor BC1 ( mostly a BBC design ) radio sounds better, but equally false when this problem.
MP3 sources can be wonderful. I think OB speakers and MP3 sound better than HD of the same recording via most OK box speakers. My speculation is the lift at 1 to perhaps 5 kHz will turn awful into dreadful. I did try to EQ the problem and found it boring and awful, maybe dreadful is better? Here is an example of what I love OB for below. I have zero chance of getting this on LP at a price I would want to pay. I doubt the turntable is as good as mine here ( LP12, Ekos DL110 and Garrard 401 when finished with SME M2 12 Denon 110 ). Somehow it doesn't matter. My CD is Marantz CD67SE with Flying Calf 20 bit DAC( Crystal ), the Marantz is not my cup of tea but is a good transport. The amp a mildly adjusted Quad 33/303. I have been building friends amps for years. One day I will do one for me. To be honest tubes do nothing for me except to say the best amp I designed was a tube amp. I have no great love for the devices except they seem to force good design ( force is the word ). Transistor amps that sound bad are simply very bad amps. Alas this means most of them. The Quad has one major flaw. It is very very level senstive. You have to get that right and also match stages well for ideal driving impedances. If you do, it will pull rabbits from hats. It also EQ's OB's very well. To be clear a Quad sounding wrong, sounds very wrong. 90% of 33/303 do sound wrong to me ( dull, enclosed, sat upon and boring ). In it's heart is an amplifer to rival most.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi96gfl_Dog
The best thing I did was using a high output cheap tweeter ( DT74/8 ). It was like playing 10 pin bowling and getting a strike first time ever tried. I fed it in first order at 6 kHz with no attenuation. At 6 kHz we can call something a supertweeter, it might be a better super tweeter than one coming in at 10 kHz. 10 kHz seems to be a number rather than good science. The 12 Lta is loosing output about that point. The change is subtle. Where I might score over the Fane is listening window. It is much better with the tweeter than most baffle types including my Magnepans. Mostly the tweeter seems to do nothing. However even on the 1927 stuff it sounds more open. I understand why that works, but really doubt it all the same ( wave shape, we hear the knee ).
If I can find a cheap washing up bowl to cut down I will try to bring the 12 inch driver out by 3 inches. I hope to find one with a taper so as not to make a new problem behind the cone. If I like it I will have to do some head scratching.
The Denon DL 110 was at first because with the gain doubled the Quad M1 board works OK with it. I built my own phono preamp to use the spare Radio 2 input ( 100 mV circa 400K, CD into that is super dreadful ) . The DL110 is better than anything I know at 4 times it's price including DL103R is some ways ( I have a Lyra Helikon and Ortofon M25 clibration also, many Shure's and AT ). DL110 needs a specific design and is hopeless into most phono stages. What I like about the Quad is it couldn't have less transistors if it tried. Into the bargain it will do good EQ. The design inverts twice which seems to get the job done with less parts as well as being virtual ground input. The power amp has internal gain where most are just current amps. This means an inverting input with high impedance. That is midly a stroke of genius. 12V to run the preamp is not enough. It is OK if very careful. Thought you should know what I use to put it in context. TV+PVR is Panasonic , it's great.
MP3 sources can be wonderful. I think OB speakers and MP3 sound better than HD of the same recording via most OK box speakers. My speculation is the lift at 1 to perhaps 5 kHz will turn awful into dreadful. I did try to EQ the problem and found it boring and awful, maybe dreadful is better? Here is an example of what I love OB for below. I have zero chance of getting this on LP at a price I would want to pay. I doubt the turntable is as good as mine here ( LP12, Ekos DL110 and Garrard 401 when finished with SME M2 12 Denon 110 ). Somehow it doesn't matter. My CD is Marantz CD67SE with Flying Calf 20 bit DAC( Crystal ), the Marantz is not my cup of tea but is a good transport. The amp a mildly adjusted Quad 33/303. I have been building friends amps for years. One day I will do one for me. To be honest tubes do nothing for me except to say the best amp I designed was a tube amp. I have no great love for the devices except they seem to force good design ( force is the word ). Transistor amps that sound bad are simply very bad amps. Alas this means most of them. The Quad has one major flaw. It is very very level senstive. You have to get that right and also match stages well for ideal driving impedances. If you do, it will pull rabbits from hats. It also EQ's OB's very well. To be clear a Quad sounding wrong, sounds very wrong. 90% of 33/303 do sound wrong to me ( dull, enclosed, sat upon and boring ). In it's heart is an amplifer to rival most.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi96gfl_Dog
The best thing I did was using a high output cheap tweeter ( DT74/8 ). It was like playing 10 pin bowling and getting a strike first time ever tried. I fed it in first order at 6 kHz with no attenuation. At 6 kHz we can call something a supertweeter, it might be a better super tweeter than one coming in at 10 kHz. 10 kHz seems to be a number rather than good science. The 12 Lta is loosing output about that point. The change is subtle. Where I might score over the Fane is listening window. It is much better with the tweeter than most baffle types including my Magnepans. Mostly the tweeter seems to do nothing. However even on the 1927 stuff it sounds more open. I understand why that works, but really doubt it all the same ( wave shape, we hear the knee ).
If I can find a cheap washing up bowl to cut down I will try to bring the 12 inch driver out by 3 inches. I hope to find one with a taper so as not to make a new problem behind the cone. If I like it I will have to do some head scratching.
The Denon DL 110 was at first because with the gain doubled the Quad M1 board works OK with it. I built my own phono preamp to use the spare Radio 2 input ( 100 mV circa 400K, CD into that is super dreadful ) . The DL110 is better than anything I know at 4 times it's price including DL103R is some ways ( I have a Lyra Helikon and Ortofon M25 clibration also, many Shure's and AT ). DL110 needs a specific design and is hopeless into most phono stages. What I like about the Quad is it couldn't have less transistors if it tried. Into the bargain it will do good EQ. The design inverts twice which seems to get the job done with less parts as well as being virtual ground input. The power amp has internal gain where most are just current amps. This means an inverting input with high impedance. That is midly a stroke of genius. 12V to run the preamp is not enough. It is OK if very careful. Thought you should know what I use to put it in context. TV+PVR is Panasonic , it's great.
If the wizzer I have 3 small wedges of acoustic foam that almost are falling off when best ( about 1/2 inch cubes or less ). I also use a paint roller ( about 4 x 1 inch for gloss paint ) suspended infront of the dust cap as a phase plug. It almost touches the cap. The cap has 3 coats of PVA glue 10 % water. The latter fixes for the 12 Lta only.
I did try a larger phase plug. It was better and worse. Mostly worse. Better was it did seem to calm the peak.
I almost bought the Fane. The fact I went so far with the phase plg made me question that. Also I would loose the HF spread which is a victorty in my OB. Better than my Magnepans so happy to get that. The reasons I stopped using them is I was starting to kill them. Nothing happened and they are still perfect. When I move house they will have a new life. I think I will build my kitchen around them.
Just listeing to Wagner as I type. My goodness the stage is wide and very deep. I must be nearly at journeys end with these. Act two sceen two Siegfried on BBC radio 3, no idea who's.
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Just received the Fanes... I'm breaking them in outside of the box with a 31.5hz signal as the suspension feels very stiff.
I'll probably put them on the baffle in a couple of hours to hear how they work and will report back. All I can say for now is, the TC with a slightly hissy amp certainly has a lot of noise... this means it really goes up to 15khz or so.
I'll probably put them on the baffle in a couple of hours to hear how they work and will report back. All I can say for now is, the TC with a slightly hissy amp certainly has a lot of noise... this means it really goes up to 15khz or so.
Ok, I think I can already report a few of my impressions.
With bass: wow, I thought it could be a bit "dry" on the lows but it sounds just great. With the cab on the floor it has the perfect amount of lows (remember that I'm using ONE TC and ONE 12 200). It's not ultra-bright and harsh like some 3.5khz tweeter equipped cabs, it's very natural sounding, balanced and smooth.
I played some Erik Mongrain music thru it and the acoustic guitar with all the nuances and percussive effects really shines thru this speaker. I could really feel every guitar "thump" like the guy was playing in front of me. I think that for the money, this is just a wonderful speaker.
With bass: wow, I thought it could be a bit "dry" on the lows but it sounds just great. With the cab on the floor it has the perfect amount of lows (remember that I'm using ONE TC and ONE 12 200). It's not ultra-bright and harsh like some 3.5khz tweeter equipped cabs, it's very natural sounding, balanced and smooth.
I played some Erik Mongrain music thru it and the acoustic guitar with all the nuances and percussive effects really shines thru this speaker. I could really feel every guitar "thump" like the guy was playing in front of me. I think that for the money, this is just a wonderful speaker.