Hi everyone
I'm very curious about the so called "Nestorovic woofer system" , a bass alignement solution used in some late seventies Speakerlab kits, and in the Nestorovic own brand models.
The sketch is from the patent site, but I'm not registered, so not able to take a look to the complete documentation.
I intend that it uses two different diameter, different parameter woofers, that share the same closed box volume. There is some aditional trick in the passive circuit that connects the compound to the power amp.
Had someone actually experienced / measured this sort of thing?
Any idea on how it actually works?, also is this just for megacurrent SS power amps, or is suitable for tube amps as well?
Thanks for any clue
J.
I'm very curious about the so called "Nestorovic woofer system" , a bass alignement solution used in some late seventies Speakerlab kits, and in the Nestorovic own brand models.
The sketch is from the patent site, but I'm not registered, so not able to take a look to the complete documentation.
I intend that it uses two different diameter, different parameter woofers, that share the same closed box volume. There is some aditional trick in the passive circuit that connects the compound to the power amp.
Had someone actually experienced / measured this sort of thing?
Any idea on how it actually works?, also is this just for megacurrent SS power amps, or is suitable for tube amps as well?
Thanks for any clue
J.
Attachments
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If you have the patent number this site might be of some use to you. I hope that you find it helpful - and good luck with your research!!!!
PAT2PDF - Free PDF copies of patents: Download and print!
Yes, I'm taking a look at it right now
(http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3984635.pdf)
Thanks again
J
(http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3984635.pdf)
Thanks again
J
I used to build these things for Mille', so I can provide some help. Unfortunately I am pressed for time and must go archive digging to come up with crossover information. You have the basic idea correct. The two drivers can be of the same or different diameters but must have quite different free air resonant points. The crossover then provides that the lower frequency resonance driver is rolled off with a huge bank of capacitors and becomes an ultra low frequency passive radiator that couples it's mass to the driven unit and alters the response of both. More in a couple of days, though we will have to figure out the needed parameters by trial and error because Mile did not share his knowledge even with those who worked for him. We were left to implement the "teorey" with only minimal guidance. All part of his training regimen.
Bud
Bud
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Hi Bud! Of course I'm sure that things will work better with a bit of EnABL treatment for the drivers and baffles!!!
As to waiting for you to find something that far back in your archives - hmmmmmm..... your archives go pretty far back so I think I'll take a chill pill and not bother checking the thread every half hour or so.
I'm working on a personal project that is a FAST based OB with some Alpair 10's and need a decent bass unit for 100 or 200 Hz down to whatever I can get that's clean. I had decided to go with a U-frame woofer arrangement and will most likely still to that for the prototype (U-frames are fast and cheap to build) buuuuuuuuuuut as always - getting sweet bass is a real challenge. 2nd plan is tossing a choke into the circuit (T-bass) but that is sorta getting close to Mille's stuff in a backward kinda way.
It's been awhile sense we have played around together with EnABL - maybe it's time to get into some more mischief!!!!
As to waiting for you to find something that far back in your archives - hmmmmmm..... your archives go pretty far back so I think I'll take a chill pill and not bother checking the thread every half hour or so.
I'm working on a personal project that is a FAST based OB with some Alpair 10's and need a decent bass unit for 100 or 200 Hz down to whatever I can get that's clean. I had decided to go with a U-frame woofer arrangement and will most likely still to that for the prototype (U-frames are fast and cheap to build) buuuuuuuuuuut as always - getting sweet bass is a real challenge. 2nd plan is tossing a choke into the circuit (T-bass) but that is sorta getting close to Mille's stuff in a backward kinda way.
It's been awhile sense we have played around together with EnABL - maybe it's time to get into some more mischief!!!!
If your stack of stuff in the attic is as big as BudP's stack of stuff - well - I'll check back inna couple of weeks - maybe a couple of month's......
Some Speakerlab parameters right here in diyaudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...rivers-nestorovic-xover-schematic-needed.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...rivers-nestorovic-xover-schematic-needed.html
Hi Bud! Of course I'm sure that things will work better with a bit of EnABL treatment for the drivers and baffles!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's been awhile sense we have played around together with EnABL - maybe it's time to get into some more mischief!!!!
Hi Thomas,
The EnABL treatment will be the topic of discussion at tonight's meeting of the Pacific Northwest Audio Society. In fact, I have to leave in about an hour and a half to help Bud load up his stuff in the car. It should be an interesting evening as Bud explains and demonstrates a pair of untreated speakers against a pair of treated speakers. He'll be using a switch box for instant A/B comparisons.
If there's time this evening, I'll be going over driver modifications, not only as a time-filler, but as a somewhat complimentary topic to Bud's. I've put together several identical drivers at various stages of completion as visual aids. However, I'm quite confident that Bud will run out of time before I need to give my two-bits. He's a very interesting person with quite a lot to share on a variety of subjects and not just about audio!
Best Regards,
Terry
Hi T.O. - BudP got me started on EnABL back a couple of years ago when I was butchering up my Walsh 5 remakes. We started discussing his EnABL process and it branched out to his threads about "how to do it" along with all of the various discussions about snake oil and a pinch or two of powdered toad - plus how to apply brush strokes. Then to add insult to injury he came out with those little hangy downy thingies that play with ground loops!!!
I haven't seen him getting in enough trouble lately so I thought I'd give him a little kick in da keister just for old times sake.
Hey - what else are friends good for?????
BTW - a big Thank You for your new letters!!! Man - that is one heck of a club ya kids have going!!!!
We have a little Nashville Audio Society meet this coming weekend - I'll keep you posted.
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some data
Speakerlab - Catalog 1980
Though can't swear about, I believe the drivers used in the S30 for a Nestorovic alignement, were the W800R and the W1000R.
Speakerlab - Catalog 1980
Though can't swear about, I believe the drivers used in the S30 for a Nestorovic alignement, were the W800R and the W1000R.
Attachments
I have a pair of S30's and have drawn the crossover which also includes the Speakerlab driver model numbers. Enjoy.
BTW, I got to visit with Bud P tonight at the audio society meeting in Seattle. His presentation was about the EnABL process and he had pairs of nearly identical speakers, one pair with the other without the EnABL. He's a very nice gentleman who generously offered to have me over to his house so he could show me how apply the EnABL pattern to some drivers.
John
BTW, I got to visit with Bud P tonight at the audio society meeting in Seattle. His presentation was about the EnABL process and he had pairs of nearly identical speakers, one pair with the other without the EnABL. He's a very nice gentleman who generously offered to have me over to his house so he could show me how apply the EnABL pattern to some drivers.
John
Attachments
Looks as if they had some serious SS power in mind, otherwise they would not allow such varying impedance.
Certainly an inspiring design to me.
What I like is the ultra low Fs and vas ~300L, even if Fs doubles in the closed box, it again will be low enough.
This design looks like a serious evolution of "A Cabinet of Reduced Size" by E. J. Jordan http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/A-Cabinet-of-Reduced-Size-with-Better-Low-Frequency-Performance.pdf
However, it seems that the ARU has been substituted by the suspension stiffness over the cone area of the bigger driver. This is the relation between raise of internal pressure and cone motion (mm/n) and also the resisting part (Cms and inertia).
Big difference is that the back wave of one of the drivers is actually contributing to the system SPL.
Another difference is that unlike the ARU calculated target properties of the suspension of the bigger driver can be translated into actual measurable target properties.
Right now, I have placed an order for a pair of custom 15-inch drivers with sub 20 Hz Fs (with unknown commissioning date) for an aperiodic cabinet, but as the cabinet will have replaceable front baffle, I could do some experiments if guided properly. I suppose this would mean that the full electrical equivalent of enclosure and drivers has to be derived - something I am not capable of.
I have on hand some capable 12-inch drivers with properties close to the quoted above for W1200R.
Best Regards!
Certainly an inspiring design to me.
What I like is the ultra low Fs and vas ~300L, even if Fs doubles in the closed box, it again will be low enough.
This design looks like a serious evolution of "A Cabinet of Reduced Size" by E. J. Jordan http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/A-Cabinet-of-Reduced-Size-with-Better-Low-Frequency-Performance.pdf
However, it seems that the ARU has been substituted by the suspension stiffness over the cone area of the bigger driver. This is the relation between raise of internal pressure and cone motion (mm/n) and also the resisting part (Cms and inertia).
Big difference is that the back wave of one of the drivers is actually contributing to the system SPL.
Another difference is that unlike the ARU calculated target properties of the suspension of the bigger driver can be translated into actual measurable target properties.
Right now, I have placed an order for a pair of custom 15-inch drivers with sub 20 Hz Fs (with unknown commissioning date) for an aperiodic cabinet, but as the cabinet will have replaceable front baffle, I could do some experiments if guided properly. I suppose this would mean that the full electrical equivalent of enclosure and drivers has to be derived - something I am not capable of.
I have on hand some capable 12-inch drivers with properties close to the quoted above for W1200R.
Best Regards!
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