I don't understand that either. On of the loveliest tower speakers I've heard (several times) is the Gershman Sonogram, which uses Morel drivers. Beautiful vocals!
I like my morel's too 
I think that zaph has a lot to do with the bad rap because he said they were terrible, and I guess people just take his word for it. I had a discussion with him over the MW144's because his measurements were nothing like mine, couldn't possibly have been the same drivers, most likely the ones he tested were faulty/damaged.
for a different (but outdated) slant on morel drivers this from the web archive of the LDSG LDSG - Morel recommendations
Tony.
edit: and yes Pano, vocals are excelent!!!
I think that zaph has a lot to do with the bad rap because he said they were terrible, and I guess people just take his word for it. I had a discussion with him over the MW144's because his measurements were nothing like mine, couldn't possibly have been the same drivers, most likely the ones he tested were faulty/damaged. for a different (but outdated) slant on morel drivers this from the web archive of the LDSG LDSG - Morel recommendations
Tony.
edit: and yes Pano, vocals are excelent!!!
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Hey Steve...can I use resisters instead of the coils for testing?? No one locally carries inductors...I would have to order them in...thanks!!
Yup and no. You don't use a series resistor on a bass unit, it just kills the damping and gets hot. You could run the bass driver with no crossover components at all. Treble can run on a single, say, 4.7uF or bigger capacitor for now. I'd put a 10W wirewound of about 15 ohms across the tweeter though. Controls the Fs resonance a bit.
Some people like that sort of sound. Phase and tweeter polarity might work either way.
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I like my morel's too
for a different (but outdated) slant on morel drivers this from the web archive of the LDSG LDSG - Morel recommendations
Hi,
No distortion measurements, and Zaph's bugbear with both Morel and Dynaudio.
Its not a question of believing him, for what reason should I disbelieve him ?
rgds, sreten.
Hi sreten, I take everything with a grain of salt after measuring the same drivers and getting VERY different results. I'm talking about gross differences in T/S parameters, mine reasonably close to factory specs, his no where near them. If those measurements were suspect, then IMO all the measurements (for that driver) were suspect.
He doesn't have the MW144 measurements up any more, if he did I'd show you the differences
edit: if distortion performance is high on ones priority list then zaph's evaluations will have a lot more relevance, than if someone does not believe that distortion performance is a high priority IMO he will slam an otherwise excellent driver if it's distortion is anything but vanishingly good
Tony.
He doesn't have the MW144 measurements up any more, if he did I'd show you the differences
edit: if distortion performance is high on ones priority list then zaph's evaluations will have a lot more relevance, than if someone does not believe that distortion performance is a high priority
IMO he will slam an otherwise excellent driver if it's distortion is anything but vanishingly good Tony.
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Hi,
If you have a problem with Zaph, fair enough, not my problem.
But I will say given the sheer number of drivers he's tested, and some do
meet near spec, intimating your testing is more accurate is very dubious.
Zaph is entitled to his opinions on distortion versus driver value, you can fix
response issues, you can't change distortion profiles, that your stuck with.
rgds, sreten.
If you have a problem with Zaph, fair enough, not my problem.
But I will say given the sheer number of drivers he's tested, and some do
meet near spec, intimating your testing is more accurate is very dubious.
Zaph is entitled to his opinions on distortion versus driver value, you can fix
response issues, you can't change distortion profiles, that your stuck with.
rgds, sreten.
Ditto...
But to those others...have you ever listened to a Morel driver?? Implemented a Morel driver??
Don't knock it till you try it LOL!!
Anyhoo...back to the task at hand...did what you said Steve...sorta...put a 3.3ohm resistor inline with a 4.7uF cap on the positive side of the tweeter and wired it up in phase...the woofer I left on its own with nothing...results??
Actually quite stunning!! I won't say perfect but a heck of alot better than I would ever have imagined!!
Bass needs a bit of boost which I did with my tone controls on my Mac...otherwise it could be a bit tighter...as it stands, it's nice, warm, full...almost there!!
The Visaton...what can I say...fantastic tweeter...so rich and smooth and I really did nothing LOL!!! Not sure if there is anything else I need to do...will listen for a couple of days to get the hang of these things...more material has to be played
It might be a tad hot in that 3k region...probably the suspect region where the 2 drivers meet...the reason I say that is piano is a tad bit hard rather than organic...less fluid...
I can't say enough good things about that ceramic tweeter...worked extremely well with the DEQX and now on it's own, it's almost magical!!
Toodles for now!!!
But to those others...have you ever listened to a Morel driver?? Implemented a Morel driver??
Don't knock it till you try it LOL!!
Anyhoo...back to the task at hand...did what you said Steve...sorta...put a 3.3ohm resistor inline with a 4.7uF cap on the positive side of the tweeter and wired it up in phase...the woofer I left on its own with nothing...results??
Actually quite stunning!! I won't say perfect but a heck of alot better than I would ever have imagined!!
Bass needs a bit of boost which I did with my tone controls on my Mac...otherwise it could be a bit tighter...as it stands, it's nice, warm, full...almost there!!
The Visaton...what can I say...fantastic tweeter...so rich and smooth and I really did nothing LOL!!! Not sure if there is anything else I need to do...will listen for a couple of days to get the hang of these things...more material has to be played
It might be a tad hot in that 3k region...probably the suspect region where the 2 drivers meet...the reason I say that is piano is a tad bit hard rather than organic...less fluid...
I can't say enough good things about that ceramic tweeter...worked extremely well with the DEQX and now on it's own, it's almost magical!!
Toodles for now!!!
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I've taken the discussion of morel and zaph with sreten off line, but just wanted to make clear I don't have a problem with zaph's measurements as a whole and in no way was implying that they shouldn't be trusted. There was only a single measurement which I had done that disagreed with his and the discussion between him and myself on that can be seen here --> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/60359-morel-mw144-deceitful-specs.html#post678832
I can see that my grain of salt comment could be construed as being aimed at all measurements he does but it was more meant to mean that there is nothing that should be beyond questioning (importance of distortion included) and is more applicable to those speakers for which he doesn't have a unit to unit consistency rating (because his sample size was two or one drivers only).
Tony.
I can see that my grain of salt comment could be construed as being aimed at all measurements he does but it was more meant to mean that there is nothing that should be beyond questioning (importance of distortion included)
and is more applicable to those speakers for which he doesn't have a unit to unit consistency rating (because his sample size was two or one drivers only). Tony.
Yes, it's very boring and disruptive to turn a build thread into a discussion of whether you "approve" of a particular driver or such. The thing is to do the best you can with them since they are already purchased.
A metal tweeter tends to sound metallic. That's just what it does. A question of its harmonic nature. You do notice it on classical piano particularly.
I was wondering if we can get that tweeter filter behaving more suitably and rolling off more steeply to avoid overlap with the bass. It can be done with a third order filter which I found in my archive. I enclose an example for future tweaking experiments. That scheme should match your Morel quite nicely, with some small tweeter diffraction effects not included here as it goes. Haven't modelled it for your particular tweeter, but that would be your starting point.
A metal tweeter tends to sound metallic. That's just what it does. A question of its harmonic nature. You do notice it on classical piano particularly.
I was wondering if we can get that tweeter filter behaving more suitably and rolling off more steeply to avoid overlap with the bass. It can be done with a third order filter which I found in my archive. I enclose an example for future tweaking experiments. That scheme should match your Morel quite nicely, with some small tweeter diffraction effects not included here as it goes. Haven't modelled it for your particular tweeter, but that would be your starting point.
Attachments
Hey there
K...internal box size...8.5"x9"x13"...internal volume ~15L...front ported tuned to Fs of the Morel...tweeters are offset like a ProAC with the port just off to the side of them and lower towards the centered Morel driver...
I would like the simpliest xover as to keep coherency between the drivers as best as possible...this tweeter tends to be so lovely and rich...very nice on vocals and jazz that I would not want it to be surpressed..or at least that much seeing a simple series RC tends to give it a slight boost in the 3-5K range making vocals a little too pronounced for my ears...too much energy coming out
Cheers!!
K...internal box size...8.5"x9"x13"...internal volume ~15L...front ported tuned to Fs of the Morel...tweeters are offset like a ProAC with the port just off to the side of them and lower towards the centered Morel driver...
I would like the simpliest xover as to keep coherency between the drivers as best as possible...this tweeter tends to be so lovely and rich...very nice on vocals and jazz that I would not want it to be surpressed..or at least that much seeing a simple series RC tends to give it a slight boost in the 3-5K range making vocals a little too pronounced for my ears...too much energy coming out
Cheers!!
you forgot a zobel for the inductor
Dissi have the zobel
but I would use bigger resistor
never less than driver dc
and the same goes for all my paralel inductors
on Dissi's xo, if you mount the 1R8 att resistors on either side of the inductor, after the series cap, maybe you could get away with slightly smaller cap, but only 'maybe'
it can be quite effective to fine adjust with those resistors
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