Re: NCD1 - Manger
Hi Karl,
I used to have the Zero 107 boxes some 7 years ago ( the ones with the 3 Mangers and the two woofers per box).
The Manger disc is a peculiar device and in the right system can sound very natural indeed. It needs a very-very fast power amp and i believe class d amps are very fast ones.
Good luck with your project.
Nikos
krungthepchalee said:
Hi Karl,
I used to have the Zero 107 boxes some 7 years ago ( the ones with the 3 Mangers and the two woofers per box).
The Manger disc is a peculiar device and in the right system can sound very natural indeed. It needs a very-very fast power amp and i believe class d amps are very fast ones.
Good luck with your project.
Nikos
First impressions...
At last... all parts have arrived!!! Quickly putting up one monoblock in test setting. No time to worry about a good case or any case at all. Just one assembly on one big plate.
Check, check, double check and check again all the wires... better safe than sorry.
One module keeps on blinking on startup (20 ohm load and input shortened), **** !!! I do not dare to use any speaker so switch off power and drain the caps by using resistors on second UPS output (quite handy if you are going for 100% dual-mono).
Switching modules and powering up again : blink, blink, steady....yes, yes, yes!!!! Lets start with one channel on NCD and one on any other configuration.
First of all a set of Missions 770 and a Philips CD player. Small hiss audible at 10-15 cm but no plops or squize at power on- or off. Ok, so far so good. Lets start playing
First impression : Nice, bright and open. Better than ever before on this 770 but this is no good setup in a 3x7m room. Next setup is a set of Studio Monitors and a NAD CD as a source an a 4X10m room.
Ughh, this is difficult. Studio Monitors are very, very harsh speakers and the NCD1 just doesn’t add up right. George Michael (Faith), Sandy Dulfer (Saxuality), Tiesto, Life, Sigor Ross,... All very bright, very open but all way to harsh. After two hours of listening I was about to give up music altogether. Wrong Way to go.
Switching setup again : Denon CD and B&W CDM1’s in a 5x11m Rooms. Hiss is gone at 5-10cm distance. I guess these speakers go low on dB’s.
Lets start rough with “Rage against the machine” which I’ve been listening to on a, very expensive equipment. Fisrt thing is to prevent my conus from popping out ! Talking about dynamics ! My Denon on the other channel doesn’t come close. Same story after swapping channels.
Listening starts te become me, you can hear the strings slapping on lead guitars more than ever. The B&W’s are much easier on the NCD but produces a much more open sound and all of the instruments are much more pronounced. Not by a margin, but way way more...
Time for some real music : Dvorak #9 under Solti. Damn, this used to sound nice but this recording is falling thrue... Mahler symphony #5 : pass me another bottle of whine, I am listening. But it really starts with Bach’s Matthaus Passion under direction of Phillippe Herreweghe. Tenor, soprano, basse... all of these voices are really coming to life. Brahms Piano #1 is sparkling again. The NCD is doing brilliant on classical music.
Time to stop. First impressions are good, real good. Speaker choice will be difficult because the NCD sounds rather harsh (or maybe because it’s just brand new).
I hope to exchange the faulty module real soon so I can start a real survey for a new set of speakers.
Will be continued... Cheers, Eric.
At last... all parts have arrived!!! Quickly putting up one monoblock in test setting. No time to worry about a good case or any case at all. Just one assembly on one big plate.
Check, check, double check and check again all the wires... better safe than sorry.
One module keeps on blinking on startup (20 ohm load and input shortened), **** !!! I do not dare to use any speaker so switch off power and drain the caps by using resistors on second UPS output (quite handy if you are going for 100% dual-mono).
Switching modules and powering up again : blink, blink, steady....yes, yes, yes!!!! Lets start with one channel on NCD and one on any other configuration.
First of all a set of Missions 770 and a Philips CD player. Small hiss audible at 10-15 cm but no plops or squize at power on- or off. Ok, so far so good. Lets start playing
First impression : Nice, bright and open. Better than ever before on this 770 but this is no good setup in a 3x7m room. Next setup is a set of Studio Monitors and a NAD CD as a source an a 4X10m room.
Ughh, this is difficult. Studio Monitors are very, very harsh speakers and the NCD1 just doesn’t add up right. George Michael (Faith), Sandy Dulfer (Saxuality), Tiesto, Life, Sigor Ross,... All very bright, very open but all way to harsh. After two hours of listening I was about to give up music altogether. Wrong Way to go.
Switching setup again : Denon CD and B&W CDM1’s in a 5x11m Rooms. Hiss is gone at 5-10cm distance. I guess these speakers go low on dB’s.
Lets start rough with “Rage against the machine” which I’ve been listening to on a, very expensive equipment. Fisrt thing is to prevent my conus from popping out ! Talking about dynamics ! My Denon on the other channel doesn’t come close. Same story after swapping channels.
Listening starts te become me, you can hear the strings slapping on lead guitars more than ever. The B&W’s are much easier on the NCD but produces a much more open sound and all of the instruments are much more pronounced. Not by a margin, but way way more...
Time for some real music : Dvorak #9 under Solti. Damn, this used to sound nice but this recording is falling thrue... Mahler symphony #5 : pass me another bottle of whine, I am listening. But it really starts with Bach’s Matthaus Passion under direction of Phillippe Herreweghe. Tenor, soprano, basse... all of these voices are really coming to life. Brahms Piano #1 is sparkling again. The NCD is doing brilliant on classical music.
Time to stop. First impressions are good, real good. Speaker choice will be difficult because the NCD sounds rather harsh (or maybe because it’s just brand new).
I hope to exchange the faulty module real soon so I can start a real survey for a new set of speakers.
Will be continued... Cheers, Eric.
soongsc: You are absolutely right, the modules will keep blinking in case no realistic load is applied. (2 - 8 Ohms resistor or speaker).
The modules are thoroughly tested before we ship them out, meaning they have among other things, been running for at least on hour at different temperatures. So the cause of the problem is most likely found outside the module, i.e. the load or maybe a too slow soft start circuit has been used. (As described in the cookbook).
Or in rare cases can be lead back to transport damage.
However in case something's wrong with the module we replace it of course under warranty, right away.
Best regards
Lars Clausen
The modules are thoroughly tested before we ship them out, meaning they have among other things, been running for at least on hour at different temperatures. So the cause of the problem is most likely found outside the module, i.e. the load or maybe a too slow soft start circuit has been used. (As described in the cookbook).
Or in rare cases can be lead back to transport damage.
However in case something's wrong with the module we replace it of course under warranty, right away.
Best regards
Lars Clausen
The noise in my speaker
As I mention before, I find that the noise coming from my speakers when the ncd is on, a little too annoying. It became slightly better when changing the internal cable from single silver wire to a shielded wire, but it is still there and to random.
I have not yet changed the op-amp with the LM6172, but it's further down the list. In fact I was thinking about buying a pair of the op627bp/ap.
Is what I'am experiencing so called heterodyning? Recording to the cookbook I may readjust the the frequency trimmer i small portion until it disappear.
Is this safe and will somewhat reduce stability or even reduce soundquality?
Just for the record.., the overall soundquality from the amp. is by far the best I have ever heard in my livingroom.
Roger
As I mention before, I find that the noise coming from my speakers when the ncd is on, a little too annoying. It became slightly better when changing the internal cable from single silver wire to a shielded wire, but it is still there and to random.
I have not yet changed the op-amp with the LM6172, but it's further down the list. In fact I was thinking about buying a pair of the op627bp/ap.
Is what I'am experiencing so called heterodyning? Recording to the cookbook I may readjust the the frequency trimmer i small portion until it disappear.
Is this safe and will somewhat reduce stability or even reduce soundquality?
Just for the record.., the overall soundquality from the amp. is by far the best I have ever heard in my livingroom.
Roger
Re: First impressions...
But which module is faulty, if any? You played on the nonblinking one which is the one that should be suspicious according to the default behaviour of blinking of the healthy modules.But you really digged its performance apart from some harshness, which may not depend on the module.
You could safely connect the other module to your speakers and compare if that one sounds more or less harsh or exactly the same
Anzgar
wtfaidh said:
But which module is faulty, if any? You played on the nonblinking one which is the one that should be suspicious according to the default behaviour of blinking of the healthy modules.But you really digged its performance apart from some harshness, which may not depend on the module.
You could safely connect the other module to your speakers and compare if that one sounds more or less harsh or exactly the same
Anzgar
Lars Clausen said:
Thanks Lars,
Using 10ohm load seems to do the job. Module seems to do just fine as well using a real speaker.
The difference in behavior of these two modules does bother me but for the moment I comply :-(.
No spare time now to do some follow-up testing but rest assured that I'll find plenty in the upcoming Easter weekend
To be continued... Cheers, Eric.
Powered on 24 hours a day since not long after they were released, playing at least 5 hours a day, I think the ones I have are working quite fine. You will notice some changes in when the blinking starts and stops, this is possibly is due to the unique way the protection is turned on, this is possibly due to cover the component performance throughout it's service life of the component. Mine did not even blink in the beginning.wtfaidh said:
Thanks Lars,
Using 10ohm load seems to do the job. Module seems to do just fine as well using a real speaker.
The difference in behavior of these two modules does bother me but for the moment I comply :-(.
No spare time now to do some follow-up testing but rest assured that I'll find plenty in the upcoming Easter weekend
To be continued... Cheers, Eric.
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