Natural dielectrics (in caps and wire) like silk, paper and cotton sound more natural

Natural dielectrics like silk,paper or cotton sound more natural than say polyprop

  • YES!

    Votes: 16 13.0%
  • NO!

    Votes: 26 21.1%
  • This is a stupid poll

    Votes: 81 65.9%

  • Total voters
    123
  • Poll closed .
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I was given two of them by another forum member, who liked my past suggestions on rational design of dielectrics and expressed his generosity with Teflon caps of various sorts. That immediately suggested a project, which lay dormant for the past couple of years. Then I got off my butt and built it. It will be a fun party tool at ETF this year.

Is this for blind testing of caps? If so, that would be interesting. Over at Hydrogenaudio, one high-end manufacturer claimed that V-caps could easily be differentiated from other high-quality film caps in blind testing. Of course, he provided no results to substantiate that claim. If that's what you're doing, it would be great to see a summary of the results once you have them. Then I could post a link to the results in that Hydrogenaudio thread.

Edit:Here is the link.
 
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GK

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Joined 2006
Then I got off my butt and built it. It will be a fun party tool at ETF this year.


Well, for a start, I doubt that you have run the teflon caps in properly and your test box will obviously introduce audio degradations that will mask the finer nuances of the V-caps anyway (even if they were broken-in properly).

You won’t win.
 
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Well, for a start, I doubt that you have run the teflon caps in properly and your test box will obviously introduce audio degradations that will mask the finer nuances of the V-caps anyway (even if they were broken-in properly).

You won’t win.

I'm not interested in "winning," I'm interested in trying a new controlled subjective test method and seeing if anything can come out of it. And if I have some fun with it, so much the better.
 
Running in or burning in does not exist according to science.

Of capacitors? Not exactly correct. What "science" says is that the effects are totally unmeasurable, contradict the same body of knowledge that makes your computer run and allows us to observe and quantify distant planets, and have exactly zero evidence behind them. All it takes is one good experiment by someone asserting the extraordinary claims to change that.

I exclude the forming of electrolytics, for which there is more-than-ample evidence.
 
There's not much question that parameters change during burn-in regardless of capacitor type. "Burn-in" can range from just sitting on the shelf to high power square wave operation. If you don't see changes, you just don't have sensitive enough measurement capability. The real question is whether these changes are in any way audible and I can't comment on that. The changes are often mechanical in nature and Teflon is a mechanically unstable material. It wouldn't surprise me if the forces produced by high fields result in some slight dimensional change that results in some slight electrical change. Something I find more interesting is the question of whether any of these changes are stable. Do you have to re-burn-in your caps if you don't use the system for a while. What about temperature changes? Most parameters will change with temperature, probably more so than with burn-in. Is there any hysterisis when changes occur? Hint- there's always hysterisis unless you're using vacuum capacitors and those would be rather large in any reasonable value. :eek:
 
Conrad, did you see the field numbers and signal sizes tossed around in the Teflon thread? Is there any evidence of measurable changes for the sort of caps used in audio at applied voltage levels within the caps' ratings? Again, I exclude electrolytics- they work in a fundamentally different way than nonpolar dielectrics.

And I would exclude the special case of paper caps that are not hermetically sealed. Temperature and humidity changes will move their characteristics all over the place. The cult surrounding them is puzzling.
 
And I would exclude the special case of paper caps that are not hermetically sealed. Temperature and humidity changes will move their characteristics all over the place. The cult surrounding them is puzzling.
Were you including those molded in beeswax in your paper cap set? I can confirm the now archetypal story of a characteristic change in sound, when beeswax was used in cheap paper layer SE OPT's for Admiral TV's. Urine salts from a seriously inebriated Hispanic supervisor, applied directly to the hot wax tank, two hours after eating the local (Elmwood Park Bar and Grill) hot pastrami sandwich and drinking Old Milwaukee beer, were the key to winning and holding the Admiral business, ever so long ago.

The man was fired for politically incorrect attempts at "encounters" and then rehired, to provide his unique chemistry, on a part time basis. I was there.

Bud
 
application of polymers

On the topic of dielectrics I did some crude tests last winter, looking for an easier/more effective insulator to replace mica on flat package transistors (yeah, no life). I thought about painting the back plate with something and I eventually tried waterbased polyurethane, thinking this could be applied thin, is tough and (I assumed) is a good insulator. The problem I had was applying it smoothly enough, as it dries very quickly it doesn't "flow out" like it's solvent based cousin. I gave up on the idea then, distracted by other things.

Thinking about it since, I have come up with another way - this time I will dip the whole device and let the coating drip off.
What do you suppose the dielectric strength of waterbased polyurethane is and how does it compare with mica or silicone?

Spin coating works wonders in the electronics industry... might give that a try...

John L.
 
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