Thinking about upgrades. Dario feels that standard iec plugs and sockets are quite poor and if replaced with better versions, a small improvement in sound quality can sometimes be heard. I know of at least one other amplifier designer who has preached about the evils of the iec plug for many years now. I would need three plugs and sockets, one for each My-Ref and one for the DCB1. This could get quite expensive for what gain I might get so I was thinking about trying short captive leads in 1m lengths of decent cable, a couple of gripper glands and panel mount fuse holders would cost a lot less than rhodium plated iec plugs & sockets x three.
I might try this at some point soon, it would be cheap to do.
I might try this at some point soon, it would be cheap to do.
Not exactly... standard brass IEC plugs and sockets are fine and good but a better version could improve performance.
Furutech inlets are not too expensive and give good results.
The DCB1 is strongly regulated so it's supposed to be not much sensitive to AC upgrades, I would focus on the monoblocks.
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Never tried them but they should be film/foil construction so you could expect a fuller and more detailed sound.
Can't say nothing about colour and hardness/harshness
Cheers Dario, think i'll fit them to the other boards when I get around to building them. I could do with putting them out of reach somewhere anyway, I keep getting the urge to take a bite out of them when I see them, they look good enough to eat lol.
EDIT - I have just been checking out Furutech iec plugs and sockets on ebay, even getting them sent from Hong Kong they are still quite pricey. Think I might try the captive mains lead route cos it totally gets around having the iec plug and socket.
EDIT - I have just been checking out Furutech iec plugs and sockets on ebay, even getting them sent from Hong Kong they are still quite pricey. Think I might try the captive mains lead route cos it totally gets around having the iec plug and socket.
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Regarding Orange Drop caps:
Voltage of C13 means little, as it passes line level signal. 715P have steel leads. 716P have copper leads. The 715P is round, while the 716P has flattened sides. I have read reports that they do not sound alike but have never verified it myself. I have verified through my own experiments that steel leads usually impart a harsh sound to high frequencies, while copper leads do not typically exhibit that detrimental quality. Personally, I would not bother installing 715P in such a critical position of such an excellent amplifier as the MyRef, no matter how delicious the caps look. 716P, on the other hand, might be worth a try, but I wouldn't expect miracles. All other construction materials (leads, dielectric) equal, a decent quality metalized film cap will probably sound as good as a cheap film and tin foil such as the 716P. A film and aluminum foil will sound better. A film and copper foil will probably sound best. Spend your money on C13 first. It's fun to experiment, especially if you share the results with the group. As many have found, even some inexpensive surplus Russian caps can sound excellent.
Regarding IEC inlet:
Upgrade may pay minor dividends, but C13 is a far more reliable place to put money and get better sonics in return. Furutech look pretty and are excellent quality. Rhodium plating is not necessary, and may even be sonically undesirable for this amp.
Peace,
Tom E
Voltage of C13 means little, as it passes line level signal. 715P have steel leads. 716P have copper leads. The 715P is round, while the 716P has flattened sides. I have read reports that they do not sound alike but have never verified it myself. I have verified through my own experiments that steel leads usually impart a harsh sound to high frequencies, while copper leads do not typically exhibit that detrimental quality. Personally, I would not bother installing 715P in such a critical position of such an excellent amplifier as the MyRef, no matter how delicious the caps look. 716P, on the other hand, might be worth a try, but I wouldn't expect miracles. All other construction materials (leads, dielectric) equal, a decent quality metalized film cap will probably sound as good as a cheap film and tin foil such as the 716P. A film and aluminum foil will sound better. A film and copper foil will probably sound best. Spend your money on C13 first. It's fun to experiment, especially if you share the results with the group. As many have found, even some inexpensive surplus Russian caps can sound excellent.
Regarding IEC inlet:
Upgrade may pay minor dividends, but C13 is a far more reliable place to put money and get better sonics in return. Furutech look pretty and are excellent quality. Rhodium plating is not necessary, and may even be sonically undesirable for this amp.
Peace,
Tom E
Wondering why you ask, Bob. Yes, I am now using the FE's as mid/high amps only with active xovers to separate bass. When I built my first pair of MyRef's, they drove a pair of B&W 802's full range, and sounded good doing it. But I realized early on that the strength of this little amp was in the upper range, not bass. Perhaps the FE with regulated supply is better? I have not yet heard them full range.
I am building a pair of FE's for my friend who has Eggleston Andra's. Look them up. We will try the FE's full range, but I don't expect outstanding bass performance, even with Mundorf M-Lytic power supply caps. Would like to be proved wrong, however. I suspect we'll end up with some sort of passive bi-amp setup with his Aragon 8008BB on the bottom.
By the way, I have spent a couple months now with a pair of FE's, one built with a Riken, one with a Shinkoh tantalum at R10. This amounts to personal preference for a very minor difference, but I hear sweeter, more musical sound from the Shinkoh's, and more detailed but very slightly sharp sound from the Riken. Is one providing greater accuracy and the other euphonic distortion? I don't care at all. I think this new design tends toward too much detail and requires just a bit of softening, almost too hi-fi SS compared to the tubey charm of the original MyRef. I really like the incredible resolution and layering of musical information, but at times it is close to brightness with a slight sharpness in the highs and upper midrange. Perhaps I will play with the compensation, try the old configuration to see if that brings back the original sweet sound while the FE layout still provides greater resolution.
Peace,
Tom E
I am building a pair of FE's for my friend who has Eggleston Andra's. Look them up. We will try the FE's full range, but I don't expect outstanding bass performance, even with Mundorf M-Lytic power supply caps. Would like to be proved wrong, however. I suspect we'll end up with some sort of passive bi-amp setup with his Aragon 8008BB on the bottom.
By the way, I have spent a couple months now with a pair of FE's, one built with a Riken, one with a Shinkoh tantalum at R10. This amounts to personal preference for a very minor difference, but I hear sweeter, more musical sound from the Shinkoh's, and more detailed but very slightly sharp sound from the Riken. Is one providing greater accuracy and the other euphonic distortion? I don't care at all. I think this new design tends toward too much detail and requires just a bit of softening, almost too hi-fi SS compared to the tubey charm of the original MyRef. I really like the incredible resolution and layering of musical information, but at times it is close to brightness with a slight sharpness in the highs and upper midrange. Perhaps I will play with the compensation, try the old configuration to see if that brings back the original sweet sound while the FE layout still provides greater resolution.
Peace,
Tom E
One note: I'm suggesting Furutech for the IEC inlets, connectors are much more pricey.
Sonarquest connectors on eBay are good quality and reasonable price.
The FE is, bass-wise, absolutely better, tighter, faster, fuller and more punchy.
Now I finally understand your comments on Shinkohs... you're comparing in the medium/high section of your bi-amped setup...
Absolutely, Shinkohs are sweeter (and less transparent too) than Riken but they've muddy bass, so bad that I've excluded them.
To a lesser extend but I do agree, I've resolved swapping True Coppers with Supremes
Asked simply cause the possibility was there. I had almost the opposite impression feeling bi-amping might be needed with V1.2 and V1.3. That has been mostly resolved with the FEs in my setup. I still get more/better low end from the Sunflower-FE combo than from the Madisound MTM LEAP designed set I used for 15 years. Neither is perfect to my ear, so the possibility of building something with the 10" drivers (2 new - 2 re-coned) sitting on the porch might become a winter project. I have a 1000 W Carver, several Paramount wedge amps and the BPA-300s to play with for power in a bi-amp test.
Pleas let us know about the results with the full range application on your friends system.
unklejoe - don't know if you had a specific reason for component placement, but standard practice says locate the transformers in the front an put the amps closer to the in/out sockets. That reduces the hum/interference potential and shortens the signal leads to a minimum. A single set of mains wires can be brought up to the transformers and branched there. If what you have is working for you I'd just suggest some wire twisting - which you may already plan to do.
Let us know what you think of the sound as the amps break in.
Let us know what you think of the sound as the amps break in.
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Fired Up For First Time
Well I finally hooked up some speakers and gave the amps a test. Both channels are playing fine. One is absolutely dead silent. If I put my ear up on the speaker the other has a very faint hiss but this could be attributable to my test layout of wiring, etc. Next step find a nice enclosure. Unclejoe's looks good,I will check it out.
Well I finally hooked up some speakers and gave the amps a test. Both channels are playing fine. One is absolutely dead silent. If I put my ear up on the speaker the other has a very faint hiss but this could be attributable to my test layout of wiring, etc. Next step find a nice enclosure. Unclejoe's looks good,I will check it out.
You're welcome.
It seems you're enjoying it.
I support Bob's POV on layout, BTW if your build is hum free don't worry too much about it.
I believe that any chipamp based on the LM3886 can pass all the bass in a music and/or sound effects signal that is contained therein.
The quality and quantity of the bass depends on the Power Supply components and the ancillary components around the lm3886.
Get all those other components right and the bass is there.
However, as with all chip amps, the output is current crippled. They do not perform well into low impedance and low efficiency loading.
If the bass speaker requires more current than the CHIPAMP can pass (or is allowed to pass) then the bass will be compromised.
The quality and quantity of the bass depends on the Power Supply components and the ancillary components around the lm3886.
Get all those other components right and the bass is there.
However, as with all chip amps, the output is current crippled. They do not perform well into low impedance and low efficiency loading.
If the bass speaker requires more current than the CHIPAMP can pass (or is allowed to pass) then the bass will be compromised.
I've been trying to reduce my FE's hum a bit further and have had no luck. Since I connected their power grounds to their chassis, I cant hear it from my chair anymore which is a big improvement. However if I put my head close to my speakers, I can still hear it. Is there anything which can be done to improve this or do I just have to put up with it?
If I short the signal in at the phono sockets to ground, they are almost silent. I just wish I could get them that quiet with something/anything actually plugged into them.
The layout is so simple I just cant see what else I can try, I tried soldering the signal in wires direct to the molex pin's and managed to get one twist in them before they reach the phono socket. That made no difference at all.
Any ideas folks?
EDIT - I almost forgot, there is one thing I can plug into them which does not increase the hum, my portable mp3 player. Anything else causes hum.
If I short the signal in at the phono sockets to ground, they are almost silent. I just wish I could get them that quiet with something/anything actually plugged into them.
The layout is so simple I just cant see what else I can try, I tried soldering the signal in wires direct to the molex pin's and managed to get one twist in them before they reach the phono socket. That made no difference at all.
Any ideas folks?
EDIT - I almost forgot, there is one thing I can plug into them which does not increase the hum, my portable mp3 player. Anything else causes hum.
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As Dario often mentions, swapping or replacing or upgrading interconnects can make a difference in some cases. There is always the Phantom Halogen bulb and mains inside the wall near an amp. If the hum is not there with the phone have you tried using the same mini plug style cable from your PC? I get intermittent hum with one of my DACs using USB.
Your last comment about your mp3 player should point you toward something other than the power amp. Sounds like it has to be coming from or caused by something external. If all else fails you might try one of the small pro audio style isolation devices sold at music stores.
If I were in your situation I'd move the equipment to a new location (my favorite is middle of the living room floor) - and add one component at a time.
Your last comment about your mp3 player should point you toward something other than the power amp. Sounds like it has to be coming from or caused by something external. If all else fails you might try one of the small pro audio style isolation devices sold at music stores.
If I were in your situation I'd move the equipment to a new location (my favorite is middle of the living room floor
) - and add one component at a time.