Oh thanks! I have your PDF titled "parts list 2". Is that up to date? I like the idea of (3) records using the 60kHz transducers. The Sonix has (4)?
Also, has anyone using these long term noted any metal fatigue? I was reading about how running these with no load (empty) can fatigue the units. Records must be a low load for these machines, no?
cheers
Hello Doc,
The 'parts list 2' hasn't been updated since I posted it. That's the right list of parts that I used, but prices may have changed slightly here and there.
The Sonix ST-136 has 3 transducers.
Loading is a function of surface area being cleaned, so actually, several records in the bath is a large load. The energy from the transducers is being spread across a large surface area, therefore, less energy is impinging on the tank walls over time. Metal fatigue shouldn't be an issue.
Good luck,
B B
The 'parts list 2' hasn't been updated since I posted it. That's the right list of parts that I used, but prices may have changed slightly here and there.
The Sonix ST-136 has 3 transducers.
Loading is a function of surface area being cleaned, so actually, several records in the bath is a large load. The energy from the transducers is being spread across a large surface area, therefore, less energy is impinging on the tank walls over time. Metal fatigue shouldn't be an issue.
Good luck,
B B
Hello to all, and What a Thread!!! I have been looking at this for the last year or so, and have just purchased a Sonix IV, along with some parts to make the RCM. I made a wet/brush clean/vacuum dry RCM several years ago, and now am convinced that this is the way to go. I am a retired machinist (30 years) with a good collection of metal working machines. I've made turntables, a Schroder tonearm clone, and I machine the parts for Win Tinnon's (Mosin) Saskia turntable. I am very much looking forward to learning from you all about this process. So, for now, just an introduction.
Hey Groove,
I look forward to hearing about your build. Configuring a URC should be kid's play for you after building turntables and tonearms.
Cheers,
B B
BB, my build will probably be very similar to your final version, as the parts I received with the UC are from your parts list, and I have no need to try and reinvent something that works well. Yesterday I threw some stuff together to give it a trial run powered by the motor. I used distilled water, ~10% 91% ISO, and a dribble of Jet-dry. I turned the heater off at 105 deg. near the top of the bath and stirred the bath before starting. The records warped in the bath, but were OK after removal. I ended up with a residue line on the LPs after dry, so am wondering if I could add a feature like a 5" long "finger" perpendicular to the spindle that would cause the records to slowly lift out of the bath at the end of the cycle. This may decrease the dry time, but would increase the clean time. Also, I could add a micro switch that would power everything off when the records have left the bath.
InDaG,
Was your liquid level above the shoulder line of the tank? That's an absolute requirement to keep temps down.
I've cleaned hundreds of records and don't have one that has warped at 120*F, much less at 105*F. That's barely above body temp. What kind of thermometer did you use?
Radiant heat from the tank wall can also make the air temp extremely high if the liquid level is not above the shoulder of the tank.
Best,
B B
Was your liquid level above the shoulder line of the tank? That's an absolute requirement to keep temps down.
I've cleaned hundreds of records and don't have one that has warped at 120*F, much less at 105*F. That's barely above body temp. What kind of thermometer did you use?
Radiant heat from the tank wall can also make the air temp extremely high if the liquid level is not above the shoulder of the tank.
Best,
B B
Hi Guys,
This is my first post to diyAudio. I joined primarily for the information in this thread.
First, I want to thank especially bbftx and cbachalo for their good advice provided here. I have completed my project using their and other ideas from the site. There are photos below.
I chose the 80 KHz Elmasonic P60H cleaner from Tovatech. I can use the 37 KHz function for other projects.
The 5 RPH motor & shaft assembly is mounted on a modified Irwin bar clamp, so there is nothing directly attached to the cleaner.
I am using a modified Vinyl Stack (the records are spaced further apart) for the record clamps and am doing three records at a time.
The pump and filter work just as described here.
Currently I’m using distilled water with about four ounces of Everclear (190 proof grain alcohol [yes, I read about not using ethanol]) and a few drops of Photo Flo.
What I have not read much about here is record cleaning solutions. I’d like to bring this up because I am using the ultrasonic as a pre-cleaner before cleaning the records on my Loricraft record washer. Records are cleaned very thoroughly by the ultrasonic, but there is still loose “material” on the record. Also, and much more important in my opinion, records can sound much better and more like the real experience if cleaned with the right fluid. I am currently using L’Art du Son, mixed as directed and then further diluted 50:50 with additional distilled water. It is a great product when used like this.
A little background: I’ve been cleaning records for about 40 years. I have 5000 or so records, mostly classical. My first machine was a VPI HW-17, but did not like the fact that the brushes on the suction tubes needed to be cleaned or replaced frequently to prevent transferring debris from record to record.
I tried a number of purchased and home-brew formulas that ranged from fair to terrible to “these people should have been run out of business long ago.” L’Art du Son was the best of the lot, and it is greatly improved by the additional dilution.
The Loricraft solved a number of problems: records were cleaner, sounded better and there was no transfer from record to record. The down side of this, as well as most other machines, is that it takes about ten minutes to carefully do both sides of a record. This is about twenty-five 40-hour weeks for my collection. When I discover something that makes a significant difference, the clock starts over. (I have never finished a complete cycle.)
The ultrasonic makes a significant difference in cleanliness; I was amazed at the additional detail on every record. Even records that I had previously scrubbed several times were vastly improved by the ultrasonic. I am a happy camper, but, as I mentioned above, the clock has started over again on my record washing project.
Some of the above may be a bit off the thread topic, but it’s not, in my opinion off the subject of better music. Again, I want to thank the guys who contributed to the thread for helping me with all the ultrasonic project details.
Best wishes,
Don
This is my first post to diyAudio. I joined primarily for the information in this thread.
First, I want to thank especially bbftx and cbachalo for their good advice provided here. I have completed my project using their and other ideas from the site. There are photos below.
I chose the 80 KHz Elmasonic P60H cleaner from Tovatech. I can use the 37 KHz function for other projects.
The 5 RPH motor & shaft assembly is mounted on a modified Irwin bar clamp, so there is nothing directly attached to the cleaner.
I am using a modified Vinyl Stack (the records are spaced further apart) for the record clamps and am doing three records at a time.
The pump and filter work just as described here.
Currently I’m using distilled water with about four ounces of Everclear (190 proof grain alcohol [yes, I read about not using ethanol]) and a few drops of Photo Flo.
What I have not read much about here is record cleaning solutions. I’d like to bring this up because I am using the ultrasonic as a pre-cleaner before cleaning the records on my Loricraft record washer. Records are cleaned very thoroughly by the ultrasonic, but there is still loose “material” on the record. Also, and much more important in my opinion, records can sound much better and more like the real experience if cleaned with the right fluid. I am currently using L’Art du Son, mixed as directed and then further diluted 50:50 with additional distilled water. It is a great product when used like this.
A little background: I’ve been cleaning records for about 40 years. I have 5000 or so records, mostly classical. My first machine was a VPI HW-17, but did not like the fact that the brushes on the suction tubes needed to be cleaned or replaced frequently to prevent transferring debris from record to record.
I tried a number of purchased and home-brew formulas that ranged from fair to terrible to “these people should have been run out of business long ago.” L’Art du Son was the best of the lot, and it is greatly improved by the additional dilution.
The Loricraft solved a number of problems: records were cleaner, sounded better and there was no transfer from record to record. The down side of this, as well as most other machines, is that it takes about ten minutes to carefully do both sides of a record. This is about twenty-five 40-hour weeks for my collection. When I discover something that makes a significant difference, the clock starts over. (I have never finished a complete cycle.)
The ultrasonic makes a significant difference in cleanliness; I was amazed at the additional detail on every record. Even records that I had previously scrubbed several times were vastly improved by the ultrasonic. I am a happy camper, but, as I mentioned above, the clock has started over again on my record washing project.
Some of the above may be a bit off the thread topic, but it’s not, in my opinion off the subject of better music. Again, I want to thank the guys who contributed to the thread for helping me with all the ultrasonic project details.
Best wishes,
Don
Ive been looking into surfactants trying to see if any common products could be used, I noticed that Quant (Quatnernary Amonia - readily available from resturant supply stores) is listed as both an antistatic and surfactant.
Has anyone tried it?
Does anyone know of a reason NOT to use it?
Quaternary ammonium cation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Has anyone tried it?
Does anyone know of a reason NOT to use it?
Quaternary ammonium cation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, I finished building my cleaner. No pics to show- it is exactly like BB's. I'm waiting for the filter parts to arrive. Today I went out looking for a pump, and found one at a small appliance repair shop. It is the Eaton model CP6 solenoid pump, similar to the Ulka mentioned earlier, except that it is beefier. It is used in a carpet cleaner. It moves about 1/2 gallon per minute, and hopefully the filter won't slow it down too much. It is noisy, so will have to be isolated.
Anyway, it cost me $20
Anyway, it cost me $20
Just found this thread, haven't read it in through yet ...
Just my 2 cents -
I found a great little label cover - Walmart sells a set of black rubber coasters that cover a label perfectly. ( we were tired of the pretty ones shattering on the floor when they stuck to the bottom of a glass ... ;-} )
They're cheap too! I haven't used them yet as I'm just starting my DIY cleaner, but they look like they'd work and are cheaper than anything else I've seen mentioned in various DIY setups on the Web.
They're not available online, but you can ship to your local store free.
About $5 - 7 Dollars if I recall. You get 7.
Mainstays 7pc Coaster Set, Black: Kitchen & Dining : Walmart.com
All the Best,
PuterPro
Just my 2 cents -
I found a great little label cover - Walmart sells a set of black rubber coasters that cover a label perfectly. ( we were tired of the pretty ones shattering on the floor when they stuck to the bottom of a glass ... ;-} )
They're cheap too! I haven't used them yet as I'm just starting my DIY cleaner, but they look like they'd work and are cheaper than anything else I've seen mentioned in various DIY setups on the Web.
They're not available online, but you can ship to your local store free.
About $5 - 7 Dollars if I recall. You get 7.
Mainstays 7pc Coaster Set, Black: Kitchen & Dining : Walmart.com
All the Best,
PuterPro
Hi All!
Just starting my DIY adventure and am on Page 12 of 67 (!!), so this may have already be asked ... Be kind!
Anyone used this one? It' seems ideal since it can go to 50Khz and has adjustable heat. My Wife will probably yell at me for going this high, she wanted me under $200, but it seems ideal for the price range.
Industrial 6 5 Liter Ultrasonic Cleaner w Timer Heater | eBay
I hope this thread isn't basically dead ... LOL! Obviously, since it's Ebay, timing is everything.
Thanks in advance,
PuterPro
Just starting my DIY adventure and am on Page 12 of 67 (!!), so this may have already be asked ... Be kind!
Anyone used this one? It' seems ideal since it can go to 50Khz and has adjustable heat. My Wife will probably yell at me for going this high, she wanted me under $200, but it seems ideal for the price range.
Industrial 6 5 Liter Ultrasonic Cleaner w Timer Heater | eBay
I hope this thread isn't basically dead ... LOL! Obviously, since it's Ebay, timing is everything.
Thanks in advance,
PuterPro
Update - (Didn't see a way to Edit the previous post ... perhaps I missed it ...)
Didn't get a timely reply, so I jumped on this instead:
6 L Industry Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner
The Specs:
It was just under $200USD delivered on E-Bay.
The other one I was looking at appeared suspiciously like one someone in the UK (earlier in this thread) got and returned as total garbage, so I went with what appears to be a more straightforward one, less "Whistles & Bells".
I suspected the "50Khz" it touted was probably 40K transducers that they were over driving to 50K to make them "variable frequency" which we all know is just marketing BS.
A Transducer has a natural frequency. Will it do others? Yeah, but the power drops off fast once you go off it's normal frequency (if my research is right). I suspect it's a bell curve.
I think I'll follow the "Aluminum frame" method, it seems the simplest, and the unit retains it's normal functions.
I'm now up to page 49 of 62, so I may see other things, and this thought may have been already explored, but:
DID ANYONE THINK OF REPLACING THE TRANSDUCERS AND MODDING THE GENERATOR TO GET TO 60k?
(Please excuse the shouting, wanted it seen in this rambling post ... LOL!)
Seems that the transducers can be picked up cheaply and I doubt the mod to change the generator's frequency would be too hard for a tech. {Ahem} That would be Moi.
My first thought would be transducer placement would be different, and getting off the old ones might be fun since they're probably epoxied, but somehow I'm not sure these cheap Chinese units had that much engineering to begin with,
more like {Fill in your best fake Chinese accent here} "Ah! We put transducers in three places, OK?"
(How's THAT for a long sentence!?)
Any engineers out there what to jump in here and blow me apart, or help, or just throw in your 2 cents? I'm easy, just pondering aloud and hoping someone with more knowledge of the subject will chime in.
I'd LOVE to be able to upgrade it to 60Khz cheaply (down the road, after my Wife has gotten over my recently upgrading to a Tube Phono preamp and some tubes for "rolling", and then buying this to clean up my 500+ records ...) LOL!
Thanks to the OP and all the others that have contributed with plans & pics and managed to seduced me into this project!
I'll try and update you all as I go ...
All the Best, PuterPro
Didn't get a timely reply, so I jumped on this instead:
6 L Industry Heated Ultrasonic Cleaner
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Specs:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It was just under $200USD delivered on E-Bay.
The other one I was looking at appeared suspiciously like one someone in the UK (earlier in this thread) got and returned as total garbage, so I went with what appears to be a more straightforward one, less "Whistles & Bells".
I suspected the "50Khz" it touted was probably 40K transducers that they were over driving to 50K to make them "variable frequency" which we all know is just marketing BS.
A Transducer has a natural frequency. Will it do others? Yeah, but the power drops off fast once you go off it's normal frequency (if my research is right). I suspect it's a bell curve.
I think I'll follow the "Aluminum frame" method, it seems the simplest, and the unit retains it's normal functions.
I'm now up to page 49 of 62, so I may see other things, and this thought may have been already explored, but:
DID ANYONE THINK OF REPLACING THE TRANSDUCERS AND MODDING THE GENERATOR TO GET TO 60k?
(Please excuse the shouting, wanted it seen in this rambling post ... LOL!)
Seems that the transducers can be picked up cheaply and I doubt the mod to change the generator's frequency would be too hard for a tech. {Ahem} That would be Moi.
My first thought would be transducer placement would be different, and getting off the old ones might be fun since they're probably epoxied, but somehow I'm not sure these cheap Chinese units had that much engineering to begin with,
more like {Fill in your best fake Chinese accent here} "Ah! We put transducers in three places, OK?"
(How's THAT for a long sentence!?)
Any engineers out there what to jump in here and blow me apart, or help, or just throw in your 2 cents? I'm easy, just pondering aloud and hoping someone with more knowledge of the subject will chime in.
I'd LOVE to be able to upgrade it to 60Khz cheaply (down the road, after my Wife has gotten over my recently upgrading to a Tube Phono preamp and some tubes for "rolling",
and then buying this to clean up my 500+ records ...) LOL!Thanks to the OP and all the others that have contributed with plans & pics and managed to seduced me into this project!
I'll try and update you all as I go ...
All the Best, PuterPro
Quick connect
I just made a quick connect for interchanging spindles. BTW I'm getting my spindle material from McMaster-Carr - 9/32 stainless, so no rust. They sell it in 1' lengths.
Anyway, here is a pic of my connector. It locks down on the 1/8" dia. motor shaft. It has a pair of L shaped slots, and a 1/8" dowel is pressed through the spindle. Picture is pretty much self explanatory.
Also found a source for cork spacers- Bed Bath and Beyond sells an 8 pack of 1/4" thick coasters, 4 1/4" dia., for 8$
I just made a quick connect for interchanging spindles. BTW I'm getting my spindle material from McMaster-Carr - 9/32 stainless, so no rust. They sell it in 1' lengths.
Anyway, here is a pic of my connector. It locks down on the 1/8" dia. motor shaft. It has a pair of L shaped slots, and a 1/8" dowel is pressed through the spindle. Picture is pretty much self explanatory.
Also found a source for cork spacers- Bed Bath and Beyond sells an 8 pack of 1/4" thick coasters, 4 1/4" dia., for 8$