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Joined 2003
Well after 9 mo. of break in they are keepers......I have done no x-over mods and the sound is great, sooooooooo...Im going to pick up the veneer in a few hrs....and finally get these things done !!!! 
I still have the extra cabs anybody need a set ????
Ill get picks up if the veneering goes well.if not
I still have the extra cabs anybody need a set ????
Ill get picks up if the veneering goes well.if not
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
IIRC you used the 8513?
Did you use the *final* recommended crossover?
Enjoy your speakers!
Did you use the *final* recommended crossover?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Enjoy your speakers!
DaHos said:Well after 9 mo. of break in they are keepers......I have done no x-over mods and the sound is great, sooooooooo...Im going to pick up the veneer in a few hrs....and finally get these things done !!!!
I still have the extra cabs anybody need a set ????
Ill get picks up if the veneering goes well.if not
that reminds I should start running my drivers in a cupboard somewhere :/ , mine will be done in the next few days
hmm im personly not veneering as it stands, if anyhting ill veneer the sides and top only, trying to create a slightly different look to the originals, if i veneer the sides/top l ill keep the mdf baffle a different stain.
MJ, I have had them running for about a year now 
and I am now getting around to finishing them up.....I was a bit worried about the veneer but all went well, even the driver cuts. I used my Dermal tool to cut out the center and then used my router with same recess bit as before. Turned out great!!
So,, how are yours comming ?????
and I am now getting around to finishing them up.....I was a bit worried about the veneer but all went well, even the driver cuts. I used my Dermal tool to cut out the center and then used my router with same recess bit as before. Turned out great!!So,, how are yours comming ?????
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Joined 2003
hehe mine are up and running, and enjoying them more and more every time, what an amazing speaker. They certainly are very birght and musical so dont suit ALL kinds of music IMHO, especially anything open to exposing siblance as discussed pretty heavilly in another thread. One day I might experiment with the alternate tweeter, its just a shame they arnt a direct size for size swap.
mine are still raw mdf atm, but are all filed, sanded and ready to be either veneered or painted, to be honest i cant decide what to do with them, but i want to do it in the next couple of weeks.
im not interested in emulating the same finsih as the originals so im open to ideas
mine are still raw mdf atm, but are all filed, sanded and ready to be either veneered or painted, to be honest i cant decide what to do with them, but i want to do it in the next couple of weeks.
im not interested in emulating the same finsih as the originals so im open to ideas
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Joined 2003
Well, the things I liked most about commercial ProAcs are the curvey D-tapered grills and funny looking plinths. I spent so much time and effort trying to emulate this, in the end I really didn't care if the sound might turn out only average.
I'm glad to say they're 100% completed. And, as a modest DIY priced 2 way, with ripe bass, the sound is top class. I give it an A. (75%)
Some pics, and construction details to be updated-
http://kram0.com/gallery/
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Joined 2003
Andy2,
No I haven't. But I they are less sensitive than all commercial speakers I've heard or owned. The Stereophile review (curiously no longer available from www.archive.org) measured the real 2.5 as being 82dB/W. So the DIY version will be about the same or slightly higher/lower depending on total series resistance to the woofers (largely a result the DCR of inductors to the woofer).
But let's put things in perspective. You can't defy the laws of physics, and most MT speakers that have at least some kind of decent bass, and was designed with full baffle step compensation (intended for away-from-wall placement) will also be relatively low in sensitivity. The ProAcs are just an example. I can think of a handful of good DIY designs that will also be low in sensitivity.
I'm using solid state- DIY Rod Elliot P3A, modfied for 90W x 2. I've heard this amp on the original Geocities clone, and I've heard my clones with Al's very nice valve amps. In short - a good amp is a good amp. (I've sold my NAD model C320 [subjectively warm and blurry with less bass precision in comparison]. Whether it's valves or transistors, personal preference will probably have a greater bearing...
Keeping in mind that are are plenty of good speakers for low cost, and that many reputedly "high-end" speakers have critical flaws. Cost is really not an indication of sound quality. If you heard me criticizing the clones, it's because I've learnt a lot and heard better speakers since building them. But I'm not dismissing them. They are certainly a very good speaker and a BIG jump up from all the low and mid-fi offerings out there. Most other criticisms are nitpickings, or coming from a high-end", "unlimited class/budget" or "compared to the best I've designed or heard" perspective.
I'd like to rock&roll or get up and dance a bit more, so my next full sized speaker will be at least average (87+dB) sensitivity, higher SPL (well in excess of 100dB) and 3-way (separate bass and mid duties)
But that's a totally different story. And with my NaO it's a totally different budget altogether.
No I haven't. But I they are less sensitive than all commercial speakers I've heard or owned. The Stereophile review (curiously no longer available from www.archive.org) measured the real 2.5 as being 82dB/W. So the DIY version will be about the same or slightly higher/lower depending on total series resistance to the woofers (largely a result the DCR of inductors to the woofer).
But let's put things in perspective. You can't defy the laws of physics, and most MT speakers that have at least some kind of decent bass, and was designed with full baffle step compensation (intended for away-from-wall placement) will also be relatively low in sensitivity. The ProAcs are just an example. I can think of a handful of good DIY designs that will also be low in sensitivity.
I'm using solid state- DIY Rod Elliot P3A, modfied for 90W x 2. I've heard this amp on the original Geocities clone, and I've heard my clones with Al's very nice valve amps. In short - a good amp is a good amp. (I've sold my NAD model C320 [subjectively warm and blurry with less bass precision in comparison]. Whether it's valves or transistors, personal preference will probably have a greater bearing...
Keeping in mind that are are plenty of good speakers for low cost, and that many reputedly "high-end" speakers have critical flaws. Cost is really not an indication of sound quality. If you heard me criticizing the clones, it's because I've learnt a lot and heard better speakers since building them. But I'm not dismissing them. They are certainly a very good speaker and a BIG jump up from all the low and mid-fi offerings out there. Most other criticisms are nitpickings, or coming from a high-end", "unlimited class/budget" or "compared to the best I've designed or heard" perspective.
I'd like to rock&roll or get up and dance a bit more, so my next full sized speaker will be at least average (87+dB) sensitivity, higher SPL (well in excess of 100dB) and 3-way (separate bass and mid duties)
But that's a totally different story. And with my NaO it's a totally different budget altogether.
something that i think should be remembered about the clones is they arnt an all round speaker imho, and dont suit all types of music,
despite the excellent bass i dont think they suit a lot of electonic music, too bright. but still this is in comparison to its performace on more instrumental music , more so than with other speakers, it still surpasses what you could buy commercially for the price far as im concerned like most good DIY / clone designs I guess
i think the alternate tweeter would be a great version for great overall performance at the expensive of losing some of the much talked about warmth in instrumental stuff,
my 5c anyway.
despite the excellent bass i dont think they suit a lot of electonic music, too bright. but still this is in comparison to its performace on more instrumental music , more so than with other speakers, it still surpasses what you could buy commercially for the price far as im concerned like most good DIY / clone designs I guess
i think the alternate tweeter would be a great version for great overall performance at the expensive of losing some of the much talked about warmth in instrumental stuff,
my 5c anyway.
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Joined 2003
You've hit the nail on the head, and I will agree with your assessment of the original clone. Although Troel's last crossover modification may help.
But I can confirm that the 9500 tweeter/crossover version is more neutral. This is a fine tweeter.
I listen to a lot of electronic music, and yes found it unbearable on the original clone. Even with well engineered stuff like BT's ESCM and Movement in Still Life. When Al compared my clone to his, in his room with his amplifiers, curiously, he had nothing to complain about 9500/Troels crossover.
But I can confirm that the 9500 tweeter/crossover version is more neutral. This is a fine tweeter.
I listen to a lot of electronic music, and yes found it unbearable on the original clone. Even with well engineered stuff like BT's ESCM and Movement in Still Life. When Al compared my clone to his, in his room with his amplifiers, curiously, he had nothing to complain about 9500/Troels crossover.
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Joined 2003
mAJORD,
Did you try the *final* crossover, recommended by Troels, and shown at the very bottom of the Crossover page of Al's Geocities website? If so, did it help?
If not, the post is here-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=542004#post542004
As far as I can tell, the single resistor takes care of the 2Khz peak from the woofer, which may help reduce the brightness.
Did you try the *final* crossover, recommended by Troels, and shown at the very bottom of the Crossover page of Al's Geocities website? If so, did it help?
If not, the post is here-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=542004#post542004
As far as I can tell, the single resistor takes care of the 2Khz peak from the woofer, which may help reduce the brightness.
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
Incidentally, I auditioned a pair of Dan Wesnor's Ellas this summer built by fellow DiyAudio'er nOOSE.
The first thing I noticed was the amazing treble. Really jumps out at you. Then after a while I felt that the speakers were rather bright. It may have something to do with off-spec woofer inductors, which we measured to have a rather high DCR (small gauge air core from Jaycar)
My lspCAD model showed the crossover attenuated the woofer by a full 1dB more than what the proposed crossover is supposed to do. In relative terms that means the tweeter is a full 1dB louder across it's entire operating region.
Good luck.
PS.
I buy my air-core inductors from www.equinoxaudio.com.au, who hand wind inductors to your spec at a reasonable price.
The first thing I noticed was the amazing treble. Really jumps out at you. Then after a while I felt that the speakers were rather bright. It may have something to do with off-spec woofer inductors, which we measured to have a rather high DCR (small gauge air core from Jaycar)
My lspCAD model showed the crossover attenuated the woofer by a full 1dB more than what the proposed crossover is supposed to do. In relative terms that means the tweeter is a full 1dB louder across it's entire operating region.
Good luck.
PS.
I buy my air-core inductors from www.equinoxaudio.com.au, who hand wind inductors to your spec at a reasonable price.
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