jtay, arrogance and pride are not a virtues, even if you are not a Christian.
Trumpeting about amazing success of 6 engineers for not connecting the Pin 3 is very odd, because every audio technician know that.
In previous posts I wrote simple facts and data about sound waves and loudspeakers specifications which you obviously don't understand. You can learn something about loudspeakers even from knowledgeable amateurs, let alone audio engineers, here in this forum. What if I am an experienced engineer with over 20 years in loudspeaker manufacturing business, what if I have several patents in the audio field (not in the medicine or biology, as you have!), what if...
Maybe my English is not so good, but I am quite positive that I haven't said that Boominator is better than your loudspeaker. On the contrary:
Trumpeting about amazing success of 6 engineers for not connecting the Pin 3 is very odd, because every audio technician know that.
In previous posts I wrote simple facts and data about sound waves and loudspeakers specifications which you obviously don't understand. You can learn something about loudspeakers even from knowledgeable amateurs, let alone audio engineers, here in this forum. What if I am an experienced engineer with over 20 years in loudspeaker manufacturing business, what if I have several patents in the audio field (not in the medicine or biology, as you have!), what if...
Maybe my English is not so good, but I am quite positive that I haven't said that Boominator is better than your loudspeaker. On the contrary:
So, the bet is off, at least for the Boominator.
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@Turk 182 My girl uses a Hypercardoid Polar Pattern Countyman Headset for her main mic and a Cardiod Polar Pattern for her backup headset. And, I use a Shure SM58 as an announcer Mic.
When we built this thing, I was thinking the same thing as you, that because sound is projected 360 degrees there may be a problem with feedback due to more sound. But to my amazement the opposite was true and not only do we not have problems with feedback, her Roland Street Cube EX has more problems with feedback.
Now I don't profess to be a sound engineer and others here can tell you better than I why such may be the case. But my guess is...
1) that it may be a result that a 360 rig requires much less volume than a conventional rig and less volume equal less feedback or another way of putting it...since a conventional rig requires much more volume to achieve anything near the same results than a 360 rig more volume results in more feedback, especially since a conventional rig sound is much more concentrated;
2) since the performer is standing near the speaker most of the time, there is an empty inverted conical shape at the center top of the speaker where there are no sound waves and it's possible that no sound waves are hitting the mic at that point. And, if the performer steps away from the speaker by the time he/she comes in-line with the sound wave trajection that the sound volume has diminished enough to not result in feedback.
But that's my laymen guess, and verbiage, because again, never had a problem with feedback so never had to research it. But I'm sure someone else here who is more qualified than myself to answer this can shed more light on this subject.
When we built this thing, I was thinking the same thing as you, that because sound is projected 360 degrees there may be a problem with feedback due to more sound. But to my amazement the opposite was true and not only do we not have problems with feedback, her Roland Street Cube EX has more problems with feedback.
Now I don't profess to be a sound engineer and others here can tell you better than I why such may be the case. But my guess is...
1) that it may be a result that a 360 rig requires much less volume than a conventional rig and less volume equal less feedback or another way of putting it...since a conventional rig requires much more volume to achieve anything near the same results than a 360 rig more volume results in more feedback, especially since a conventional rig sound is much more concentrated;
2) since the performer is standing near the speaker most of the time, there is an empty inverted conical shape at the center top of the speaker where there are no sound waves and it's possible that no sound waves are hitting the mic at that point. And, if the performer steps away from the speaker by the time he/she comes in-line with the sound wave trajection that the sound volume has diminished enough to not result in feedback.
But that's my laymen guess, and verbiage, because again, never had a problem with feedback so never had to research it. But I'm sure someone else here who is more qualified than myself to answer this can shed more light on this subject.
@Sonce...It's not arrogance, it's experience. As evidenced by you trying to prove another false narrative...First, I assume you know that an XLR3: Pin #1 = ground/shield; Pin# 2 = Positive/hot; Pin #3 = Negative/cold
So lets say that what the Yamaha engineer's told me is common knowledge and everyone knows to float Pin #3 Negative using only a two wire cable, which means you only wire the Positive and shield (and float the negative), then that means that the world's foremost experts on the subject, who probably know more than you and me, would all be doing it this way, correct?
See Figure 5: Pro output to Consumer input and tell me if he is floating Pin #3?:
AV: Connecting Unbalanced Outputs To Balanced Inputs—And Vice-Versa - Pro Sound Web
On the flip side, here's a smart guy that gets it correct and even tells you what not to do because he, like me (and unlike you) knows it's a common problem as do Yamaha engineers:
>>When connecting an active-balanced output to an unbalanced load, it is necessary to leave the cold output (pin-3) floating. Using an XLR connector, pin-3 should not be connected to anything. If a cable is used with pin-3 tied to pin-1 (shield), the output amplifier could be damaged. This type of connection establishes a low/no impedance path to ground. This means the amplifier will drain current, unimpeded, into ground, which is stressful to the output amplifier.<<
How to Connect Balanced and Unbalanced Audio - Avid Community
But my point was, and still is.....this IS NOT widely known as you falsely claim, and, yes, we made the same mistake that most people make which is to tie pin 3 to pin 1, which results in DC hum because that's how the so-called professionals told us how to wire it, and even off-the-shelf balanced to unbalanced wires come wired with the #3 pin tied to the #1 pin.
If it was known by you, kudos. But why even bring it up and lie about it when you know good and well what I'm stating is fact? This is not a ******* match to see who's smarter. This is about helping people design and build there own 360 degree system. And, my time is EXTREMELY valuable measured in dollars in what I could be making working on other projects.
And, I'm giving it here for free because I truly want the many street musicians to have this gear that they have needed for years but the dum# a#@ name brand manufacturers can't seem to figure it out, so I did...at least a good start for others here smarter than me to take it to the next level.
Man, give it a rest! If you have something to add that makes sense just say it but don't try to make others look bad so you can look good and you will gain respect.
I don't have to prove my worth because I know my worth. I, respectfully suggest you do the same because my time here will be limited.
Thank you.
So lets say that what the Yamaha engineer's told me is common knowledge and everyone knows to float Pin #3 Negative using only a two wire cable, which means you only wire the Positive and shield (and float the negative), then that means that the world's foremost experts on the subject, who probably know more than you and me, would all be doing it this way, correct?
See Figure 5: Pro output to Consumer input and tell me if he is floating Pin #3?:
AV: Connecting Unbalanced Outputs To Balanced Inputs—And Vice-Versa - Pro Sound Web
On the flip side, here's a smart guy that gets it correct and even tells you what not to do because he, like me (and unlike you) knows it's a common problem as do Yamaha engineers:
>>When connecting an active-balanced output to an unbalanced load, it is necessary to leave the cold output (pin-3) floating. Using an XLR connector, pin-3 should not be connected to anything. If a cable is used with pin-3 tied to pin-1 (shield), the output amplifier could be damaged. This type of connection establishes a low/no impedance path to ground. This means the amplifier will drain current, unimpeded, into ground, which is stressful to the output amplifier.<<
How to Connect Balanced and Unbalanced Audio - Avid Community
But my point was, and still is.....this IS NOT widely known as you falsely claim, and, yes, we made the same mistake that most people make which is to tie pin 3 to pin 1, which results in DC hum because that's how the so-called professionals told us how to wire it, and even off-the-shelf balanced to unbalanced wires come wired with the #3 pin tied to the #1 pin.
If it was known by you, kudos. But why even bring it up and lie about it when you know good and well what I'm stating is fact? This is not a ******* match to see who's smarter. This is about helping people design and build there own 360 degree system. And, my time is EXTREMELY valuable measured in dollars in what I could be making working on other projects.
And, I'm giving it here for free because I truly want the many street musicians to have this gear that they have needed for years but the dum# a#@ name brand manufacturers can't seem to figure it out, so I did...at least a good start for others here smarter than me to take it to the next level.
Man, give it a rest! If you have something to add that makes sense just say it but don't try to make others look bad so you can look good and you will gain respect.
I don't have to prove my worth because I know my worth. I, respectfully suggest you do the same because my time here will be limited.
Thank you.
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And, to elaborate even further on the wiring, this is why the common wiring mistake occurs...generally speaking the layman, and many pros, incorrectly assume negative to negative and positive to positive. So they have a three wire, +/- shield, cable because that's what they bought for their XLR3F connector. So they immediately go to the many incorrect wiring charts on the internet on this subject and wire pin #2 positive to positive input wire on consumer gear, and pin #3 negative to negative input on consumer gear, but what about the pin #1 the shield, because the consumer gear only has two wires? They typically will tie #1 shield to #3 negative as the smart guy above mentions, because that's what they are being told to do by so-called professionals, which is WRONG and WILL result in DC hum and possibly damage to your gear.
Now, I hope you better understand why this is a VERY COMMON problem and has resulted in many people giving up hooking pro gear to consumer gear because they can't figure out where the DC hum is coming from so they resort to all kinds of unnecessary tricks like the so-called pro in the first link, when all they have to do us ignore the #3 pin and hook positive to positive and negative from the consumer gear input to the shield on the XLR3 connector, and bingo....the DC hum goes away without any fancy tricks.
Now, I hope you better understand why this is a VERY COMMON problem and has resulted in many people giving up hooking pro gear to consumer gear because they can't figure out where the DC hum is coming from so they resort to all kinds of unnecessary tricks like the so-called pro in the first link, when all they have to do us ignore the #3 pin and hook positive to positive and negative from the consumer gear input to the shield on the XLR3 connector, and bingo....the DC hum goes away without any fancy tricks.
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And, to all, if you really like the gear, even if you modify and/or improve it, maybe we can name it after my little girl because she was the first one to suggest that I give it all away instead of applying for a patent because she knows and deeply cares for many of the street performers she has met over the years across the nation and in Brazil where she was born.
If you think this is not too much to ask, her name is Rita Angel Taylor and her friend's call her RAT because of her initials. I know it sounds harsh for an Angel but the kids love it. Maybe...RAT Pack? Or, 360 Angel? I really don't know. But I think 360 is the wave of the future, at least for outdoor live sound street performers and outdoor boomboxes where the audience surrounds the performer/boom box because no other gear can even come close to matching the quality of sound, period!
If you think this is not too much to ask, her name is Rita Angel Taylor and her friend's call her RAT because of her initials. I know it sounds harsh for an Angel but the kids love it. Maybe...RAT Pack? Or, 360 Angel? I really don't know. But I think 360 is the wave of the future, at least for outdoor live sound street performers and outdoor boomboxes where the audience surrounds the performer/boom box because no other gear can even come close to matching the quality of sound, period!
And, I know some of you are indeed building it because you have PM'd me. I/we would love to see photos of your gear when it's completed and your response to the quality of sound. I will also post some budget suggestions for optional speakers and a sheepskin alternative later because I know some of you may not have my budget.
And, a thought my girl had....You could build one with a thick seat pad and a foot rest on the lower bucket which would double as a sitting stool so you guitar players could sit while performing if you desire.
And, a thought my girl had....You could build one with a thick seat pad and a foot rest on the lower bucket which would double as a sitting stool so you guitar players could sit while performing if you desire.
Figure 5 from ProSound Web link depicts transformer coupled balanced/unbalanced connection only. There, pin 3 is tied up with pin 1, which is correct. This is not applicable in your case (Yamaha MGO6X - Alpine KTP-445U), because you don't have audio transformer anywhere in the line. Please do your homework before writing such blunder.
From the same link from Avid Community, here is a citation for" transformer balanced:
"Using an XLR connector, this corresponds to tying pin-3 to pin-1."
That is the same as what is on the Figure 5 from the world's foremost experts on the subject from ProSound Web.
What about non-transformer balanced/unbalanced connection, i.e. your case (which is not on the Figure 5!)? Well, you have only two options - tying pin 3 with pin 1, or floating pin 3.
You have buzzing DC hum with pin 3 tied to pin 1? So why you need 6 engineers to do the only other possible option - to float the pin 3? I learned that from audio technician when I was 15.
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My apologies, you are correct on the links, I just looked again... butwho gives a rat# A3$? As long as my wiring is correct, AND IT IS, and I share what we were told, AND I DID, which is the whole purpose of this thread. Not to prove I'm an EE, because I'm not, I'm an ID and ME.
All I care about is that they wire my setup correctly so they don't go through the same pitfalls as we went through. I have six engineers on salary that do anything I tell them to do all year long as I do legal an others so it doesn't cost me any extra as long as they can find time in their busy schedule. I own a product development company and my products are in use all around the world as evidenced by my many published patents which are assigned to the top companies. No, I don't know everything and don't claim to and better yet, don't have to, because I have access to the best and when we fall short as we often do, we consult...welcome to the world of engineering.
Show me the schematic on several websites proving it's common knowledge, and it may be now, I don't know, and I'll give you kudos....would that make you feel better? Also, PM me your resume if you have a degree.
You seem like a smart guy...Now go design and build something!
It's been fun, I'll not respond to you anymore. Good luck!
PS: My daughter's sad she won't get her $5k - Good decsion
All I care about is that they wire my setup correctly so they don't go through the same pitfalls as we went through. I have six engineers on salary that do anything I tell them to do all year long as I do legal an others so it doesn't cost me any extra as long as they can find time in their busy schedule. I own a product development company and my products are in use all around the world as evidenced by my many published patents which are assigned to the top companies. No, I don't know everything and don't claim to and better yet, don't have to, because I have access to the best and when we fall short as we often do, we consult...welcome to the world of engineering.
Show me the schematic on several websites proving it's common knowledge, and it may be now, I don't know, and I'll give you kudos....would that make you feel better? Also, PM me your resume if you have a degree.
You seem like a smart guy...Now go design and build something!
It's been fun, I'll not respond to you anymore. Good luck!
PS: My daughter's sad she won't get her $5k - Good decsion
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The OP's mind seems made up, but I'm answering these points for anyone who may come along for info (possibly years from now).
Quotations not 100% direct - I removed some of the smugness, the confusing paragraphs, and tweaked a couple of things as noted. I also put the most important / egregious bits first.
Nope. The short version: the Boominator is (loosely) the same concept, but is more efficient, in a sturdier enclosure, and has had ten years of tweaking and variants documented by lots of builders. That’s why I see it as a good starting point (better than a one-off that had lots of teething problems) and why I think it would be clearly better in some ways, such as ruggedness (because: plywood) and battery life (because: more efficiency).
The standard Boominator is a dipole (nearly omni) and is more efficient, not less. You were looking at the rating for one woofer. It has four. That makes a difference.
I’m going to go ahead and repeat what I posted earlier. The Boominator is already a dipole and “could be easily tweaked to be more omni (e.g. just use two halfinators, pointing in different directions).”
You’re completely missing the point. This is just one example of many off-the shelf mixers that do exactly what you want. If the mixer has the required RCA outputs already, there is no need to go to any further trouble with wiring / modifications.
You began your project with items that are faulty when used together, and then used 6 engineers to fix that problem. This is like buying boots that are too small, and having your feet surgically altered. Sure it might work, but don't expect universal praise for having done it the hard way.
Also: I skimmed the the ‘dismal ratings’ for that mixer. They don't seem applicable. People are complaining about the USB interface and wall wart. These are not relevant to your application. Why care about (or pay for) the quality of features you aren't using?
Note on sound quality: using the RCA outputs of this mixer, you'd have a Signal-To-Noise Ratio of 90dB. I know from experience that this is not good enough for me, for critical use, in my home. But on a noisy street, with lots of distractions and background noise, I think it would be just fine.
The amp you're using is specified as having a Signal-To-Noise Ratio of 82dB (at one watt) - which is terrible, compared to most home or pro gear. No amount of money spent on a mixer (or trumpeting of your engineering credentials) will improve that.
If you 'downgraded' to a "cheap consumer mixer", it wouldn't be the weakest link, the amp would.
Have you actually measured the response of your system, to see if it matches that spec? That would be an objective way of confirming your engineering achievement.
I understand these specs fairly well. The first sentence I quoted shows you do not.
1) The numbers for a single woofer (44-4000 Hz) are not descriptive of the entire Boominator system (which has 4 woofers and 4 tweeters)
2) A driver’s Fs (33 Hz, 44 Hz - whatever it may be) is not a simple, direct indicator of how low it will play in actual use. Output doesn’t magically begin at the driver’s Fs.
3) I’ll cover the AN treble stuff later. Short version: 20,000Hz means nothing, in your application.
You also seem to be misusing the words amateur and pro - both are amateur builds with pro input. The Boominator uses pro drivers (not that that really means anything).
AN bass: Attached is the raw response graph for two AN 8" drivers ("classic" and "super"). Note that they both droop below 300Hz, and are -15dB at 30Hz. Any similarly efficient 8" drivers will do this. They require huge and well optimised enclosures, with optimal room placement, to get flat output down to 30Hz. This is not how you are using them, so the “33[...]hz of the pro AN's” is a meaningless figure, in your application.
Boominator bass: this system is designed to have good (outdoor, or ‘half space’) output down to 82Hz (not 44Hz). Output doesn’t magically begin at the woofer’s Fs.
The designer clearly states, on these forums, that a high tuning was picked because “Trying to go belong (sic) 100 Hz in free-field is nonsense if you keep the other design parameters in mind. It's better to have a good middle bass performance to compensate for the lack of real sub-bass.”
I think this is excellent logic. The strength of his design is that he understood and accepted that compromise from the start, leaving him free to optimise other areas. Lots of people do not.
Boominator treble: it can go to 20 kHz (or beyond). Extension and dispersion depend on the tweeter chosen, and their layout (you seem to have missed that it uses tweeters).
1) They have a decade of use, and the design is widely copied because of how well the original(s) performed at multi-day music festivals. That seems like ample evidence of it ‘holding up’.
2) Wattage doesn’t matter, as a solitary number. Speaker efficiency + wattage available sets upper SPL limits e.g.
AAA System: 99dB with 10 watts (+10dB) will give 109dB peaks.
BBB System: 95dB with 20 watts (+13dB) will give 108dB peaks.
BBB has twice the power, but slightly lower peak levels.
I think I might know more than you: it appears that you did not realise that an 8” driver, that measures with (sort of) flat treble on-axis, will not have flat treble when listened to off axis, via a reflector.
AN treble: the high frequency response as measured (graphed) is indeed quite extended. However, drivers this size ‘beam’ most of their HF energy directly on-axis. This is known as an uneven power response. At 300Hz the sound is spread pretty widely, but at 20kHz, it is ‘fired’ in a fairly narrow beam. The 20kHz sound is only as loud as the 300Hz sound if the listener is directly in that beam.
The way you have your drivers configured, it is impossible to listen on-axis. Because the ‘beam’ of 20 kHz sound has been spread out to 360 degrees, this means the 20kHz can be heard everywhere, but at much lower levels ...so the “20,000hz of the pro AN's” is a meaningless spec, in your application.
A Boominator, using multiple tweeters, will have much stronger treble.
Luckily, it doesn’t really matter for your application. The fact that you hadn’t noticed the difference and love the sound (compared to your home HIFI) shows how little this 20kHz spec actually matters (the average 40 year old has over 10 dB of hearing loss at 8kHz, and much more at 20kHz).
None of these options - a Boominator, a pair of Halfinators or a pair of pink buckets – will be perfectly 360. A lone pink bucket might be a good omni source, but as soon as you introduce complications (two sound sources and bulky objects nearby), you’ll have an uneven sound field. Walking a circle around the system with a measurement microphone, you’d record a different response pattern at different points.
Luckily, it doesn’t really matter - I think any of the options would be OK for sound distribution.
This isn’t you being respectful. This is you pretending to be civil, while actually being patronising and making assumptions. As has been pointed out, you're not the only engineer on-line. I may have published in some of the same areas as you, but it is not relevant - it doesn't make me more or less correct about whether audio item X can do Y.
Specs sometimes do lie. I have speakers that didn't measure as advertised.
Specs always need interpretation. I've explained how the 33Hz and 20 kHz numbers mean nothing in your application.
You asked if I even understand specs. I ask, (yes, just as patronisingly): do you know what the little flags next to our user names mean? Look at a globe. Santa Monica is not very convenient to places like Australia or Macedonia.
'big boys'? Please spare me the size comparisons. Phallic jousting AND intellectual boasting in the same post? I think you need to pick a team.
Quotations not 100% direct - I removed some of the smugness, the confusing paragraphs, and tweaked a couple of things as noted. I also put the most important / egregious bits first.
Nope. The short version: the Boominator is (loosely) the same concept, but is more efficient, in a sturdier enclosure, and has had ten years of tweaking and variants documented by lots of builders. That’s why I see it as a good starting point (better than a one-off that had lots of teething problems) and why I think it would be clearly better in some ways, such as ruggedness (because: plywood) and battery life (because: more efficiency).
The standard Boominator is a dipole (nearly omni) and is more efficient, not less. You were looking at the rating for one woofer. It has four. That makes a difference.
I’m going to go ahead and repeat what I posted earlier. The Boominator is already a dipole and “could be easily tweaked to be more omni (e.g. just use two halfinators, pointing in different directions).”
You’re completely missing the point. This is just one example of many off-the shelf mixers that do exactly what you want. If the mixer has the required RCA outputs already, there is no need to go to any further trouble with wiring / modifications.
You began your project with items that are faulty when used together, and then used 6 engineers to fix that problem. This is like buying boots that are too small, and having your feet surgically altered. Sure it might work, but don't expect universal praise for having done it the hard way.
Also: I skimmed the the ‘dismal ratings’ for that mixer. They don't seem applicable. People are complaining about the USB interface and wall wart. These are not relevant to your application. Why care about (or pay for) the quality of features you aren't using?
Note on sound quality: using the RCA outputs of this mixer, you'd have a Signal-To-Noise Ratio of 90dB. I know from experience that this is not good enough for me, for critical use, in my home. But on a noisy street, with lots of distractions and background noise, I think it would be just fine.
The amp you're using is specified as having a Signal-To-Noise Ratio of 82dB (at one watt) - which is terrible, compared to most home or pro gear. No amount of money spent on a mixer (or trumpeting of your engineering credentials) will improve that.
If you 'downgraded' to a "cheap consumer mixer", it wouldn't be the weakest link, the amp would.
Have you actually measured the response of your system, to see if it matches that spec? That would be an objective way of confirming your engineering achievement.
I understand these specs fairly well. The first sentence I quoted shows you do not.
1) The numbers for a single woofer (44-4000 Hz) are not descriptive of the entire Boominator system (which has 4 woofers and 4 tweeters)
2) A driver’s Fs (33 Hz, 44 Hz - whatever it may be) is not a simple, direct indicator of how low it will play in actual use. Output doesn’t magically begin at the driver’s Fs.
3) I’ll cover the AN treble stuff later. Short version: 20,000Hz means nothing, in your application.
You also seem to be misusing the words amateur and pro - both are amateur builds with pro input. The Boominator uses pro drivers (not that that really means anything).
AN bass: Attached is the raw response graph for two AN 8" drivers ("classic" and "super"). Note that they both droop below 300Hz, and are -15dB at 30Hz. Any similarly efficient 8" drivers will do this. They require huge and well optimised enclosures, with optimal room placement, to get flat output down to 30Hz. This is not how you are using them, so the “33[...]hz of the pro AN's” is a meaningless figure, in your application.
Boominator bass: this system is designed to have good (outdoor, or ‘half space’) output down to 82Hz (not 44Hz). Output doesn’t magically begin at the woofer’s Fs.
The designer clearly states, on these forums, that a high tuning was picked because “Trying to go belong (sic) 100 Hz in free-field is nonsense if you keep the other design parameters in mind. It's better to have a good middle bass performance to compensate for the lack of real sub-bass.”
I think this is excellent logic. The strength of his design is that he understood and accepted that compromise from the start, leaving him free to optimise other areas. Lots of people do not.
Boominator treble: it can go to 20 kHz (or beyond). Extension and dispersion depend on the tweeter chosen, and their layout (you seem to have missed that it uses tweeters).
1) They have a decade of use, and the design is widely copied because of how well the original(s) performed at multi-day music festivals. That seems like ample evidence of it ‘holding up’.
2) Wattage doesn’t matter, as a solitary number. Speaker efficiency + wattage available sets upper SPL limits e.g.
AAA System: 99dB with 10 watts (+10dB) will give 109dB peaks.
BBB System: 95dB with 20 watts (+13dB) will give 108dB peaks.
BBB has twice the power, but slightly lower peak levels.
I think I might know more than you: it appears that you did not realise that an 8” driver, that measures with (sort of) flat treble on-axis, will not have flat treble when listened to off axis, via a reflector.
AN treble: the high frequency response as measured (graphed) is indeed quite extended. However, drivers this size ‘beam’ most of their HF energy directly on-axis. This is known as an uneven power response. At 300Hz the sound is spread pretty widely, but at 20kHz, it is ‘fired’ in a fairly narrow beam. The 20kHz sound is only as loud as the 300Hz sound if the listener is directly in that beam.
The way you have your drivers configured, it is impossible to listen on-axis. Because the ‘beam’ of 20 kHz sound has been spread out to 360 degrees, this means the 20kHz can be heard everywhere, but at much lower levels ...so the “20,000hz of the pro AN's” is a meaningless spec, in your application.
A Boominator, using multiple tweeters, will have much stronger treble.
Luckily, it doesn’t really matter for your application. The fact that you hadn’t noticed the difference and love the sound (compared to your home HIFI) shows how little this 20kHz spec actually matters (the average 40 year old has over 10 dB of hearing loss at 8kHz, and much more at 20kHz).
None of these options - a Boominator, a pair of Halfinators or a pair of pink buckets – will be perfectly 360. A lone pink bucket might be a good omni source, but as soon as you introduce complications (two sound sources and bulky objects nearby), you’ll have an uneven sound field. Walking a circle around the system with a measurement microphone, you’d record a different response pattern at different points.
Luckily, it doesn’t really matter - I think any of the options would be OK for sound distribution.
This isn’t you being respectful. This is you pretending to be civil, while actually being patronising and making assumptions. As has been pointed out, you're not the only engineer on-line. I may have published in some of the same areas as you, but it is not relevant - it doesn't make me more or less correct about whether audio item X can do Y.
Specs sometimes do lie. I have speakers that didn't measure as advertised.
Specs always need interpretation. I've explained how the 33Hz and 20 kHz numbers mean nothing in your application.
You asked if I even understand specs. I ask, (yes, just as patronisingly): do you know what the little flags next to our user names mean? Look at a globe. Santa Monica is not very convenient to places like Australia or Macedonia.
and let me show you how the big boys play
'big boys'? Please spare me the size comparisons. Phallic jousting AND intellectual boasting in the same post? I think you need to pick a team.
Attachments
jtay, could you please go over some things?
1. The specs of the datasheet aren't applicable since it's dependent on the enclosure. To get the Audio Nirvana 10 Classic down to your acclaimed 33Hz you'd need a 170l enclosure and a port tuned to ~35Hz. The ports you've drilled are (I have to approximate it) 1,5 inches in diameter? The volume is around 60l? I know, it looks more like 40l but let's assume 60l in favor of your speakers. At 6 ports with a depth of 3mm (material thickness) the lowest you can get is around 75Hz. If you vary the measurements by far, it's still above 60Hz. With 40l it's around 85Hz. That's fine for your use but be honest: to claim 33Hz isn't realistic.
No, don't believe me, put the values into a bassreflex simulator and check for yourself.
2. The Audio Nirvana 10 Classic is expensive but not made for a PA system and not suited for it at all. The power rating is low - and, worse - the Xmax is only 1mm (that is the maximum linear excursion). It simply means your Audio Nirvana speaker is limited mechanically before it reaches its maximum power. The spl equals surface times excursion in the bass. The boominator got 5 times the excursion, double the cone surface and capable of more than 5 times the power rating.
3. A lot of people here told you already the specs you gave aren't correct. Not to know how they came to the result does not make them wrong. Your engeneers are probably (or even most likely) great in their expertise but how good is a fish climbing a tree? Boasting with patents and engeneers on hand don't improve the properties of your speakers.
See, you are doing stuff for and with your kid and that's great. I see you are happy and she's too. Noone here wants to take that from you, everyone is just pointing out your claims aren't correct.
1. The specs of the datasheet aren't applicable since it's dependent on the enclosure. To get the Audio Nirvana 10 Classic down to your acclaimed 33Hz you'd need a 170l enclosure and a port tuned to ~35Hz. The ports you've drilled are (I have to approximate it) 1,5 inches in diameter? The volume is around 60l? I know, it looks more like 40l but let's assume 60l in favor of your speakers. At 6 ports with a depth of 3mm (material thickness) the lowest you can get is around 75Hz. If you vary the measurements by far, it's still above 60Hz. With 40l it's around 85Hz. That's fine for your use but be honest: to claim 33Hz isn't realistic.
No, don't believe me, put the values into a bassreflex simulator and check for yourself.
2. The Audio Nirvana 10 Classic is expensive but not made for a PA system and not suited for it at all. The power rating is low - and, worse - the Xmax is only 1mm (that is the maximum linear excursion). It simply means your Audio Nirvana speaker is limited mechanically before it reaches its maximum power. The spl equals surface times excursion in the bass. The boominator got 5 times the excursion, double the cone surface and capable of more than 5 times the power rating.
3. A lot of people here told you already the specs you gave aren't correct. Not to know how they came to the result does not make them wrong. Your engeneers are probably (or even most likely) great in their expertise but how good is a fish climbing a tree? Boasting with patents and engeneers on hand don't improve the properties of your speakers.
See, you are doing stuff for and with your kid and that's great. I see you are happy and she's too. Noone here wants to take that from you, everyone is just pointing out your claims aren't correct.
Grow up
Very nice speakers for a girl like that . well done ,She's happy , You're happy , but what the ? Cut the crap on the patents and engeneering . You had your moments of fame on Youtube (?). Well done , happy daughter !Happy Dad !
Stop poluting this forum with your endless monologs of your superior DIY and engeneering and patenting capabilties , not to mention all your legal powers and friends ! Your video on the tube was quite likable to watch , but the sound quality was THAT bad , I must question your qualifications in knowledge of any audio engineering .
Cheers ,
Rens
Very nice speakers for a girl like that . well done ,She's happy , You're happy , but what the ? Cut the crap on the patents and engeneering . You had your moments of fame on Youtube (?). Well done , happy daughter !Happy Dad !
Stop poluting this forum with your endless monologs of your superior DIY and engeneering and patenting capabilties , not to mention all your legal powers and friends ! Your video on the tube was quite likable to watch , but the sound quality was THAT bad , I must question your qualifications in knowledge of any audio engineering .
Cheers ,
Rens
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