@armarra1 - do not click on the reply button when responding to a post if it's the last one in the thread, simply use the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the screen.
On the contrary, it assumes a lot of ignorance and is written to impress such people. It does not appear to be technobabble; it is technobabble. The only question is whether the author actually believes it himself; is he foolish or dishonest?armarra1 said:
I am pleased to hear that you have some understanding of impedance.
I spoke too soon. You don't understand impedance.
Only if the radiating 'centre' of the speaker is displaced. If so, this would normally be corrected to some extent in the crossover network; it certainly cannot be corrected generically by some external effects box. Therefore their claim lacks plausibility; in fact it is worse than that, it possesses a ring of untruth.
We can. We suspect you cannot.
Please stop putting stereo and Dolby in the same sentence as BBE. You are merely exhibiting ignorance, which by now is beginning to look like wilful ignorance. If you want to learn then this thread has patiently given you lots of useful information, but I fear that you may prefer to stay as you are.armarra1 said:
Those description might seem positive to someone who is not interested in high quality sound reproduction, but prefers to be impressed and impress his friends. That is, the typical consumer of modern audio.
All three of these are at their heart trying to achieve a more realistic sound arent they. Can we agree on that.
Dolby and BBE are both aiming to compensate for inadequacies in the record and playback systems..this much is true in concept.
Now..Dolby isn't perfect. Neither is BBE but both have the same aim in mind. Whether you agree that they acieve that aim is up to you.
I understand that for some reason its not popular here but if we are interested in true HiFi then why are flawed systems like dolby which arbitrarily lifts 'certain' frequencies on record mode accepted, yet BBE which also picks certain parameters to work with is not accepted.
In fact each is flawed (imperfect). So why accept the flaws in one and not the other.
Compensate for inadequacies
Dolby is a Noise Reduction feature that if turned on under recording process to tape will encode its filter pattern and when replayed needs the inverse decode turned on else sound is not right, this is totally different than BBE because industry of the world have adopted Dolby as a standard because it proved its worth, its precise because encode pattern is known then decode is simply the inverse and also in its hardware is some integrated circuits stamped with a Dolby laboratory logo its possible get device within good specs and drift.BBE is not adopted in industry as a standard and its decode is not a reverse mirror of a known error, BBE is at its best shooting for a "kind of mirror curve" and therefor we are some that call it effects process, can't know exactly if it acts like the simulation in post 207 but if it does i call it a sommerhat and business more than a serious filter to improve waveshape.
Having a look on the web I'm starting to get the idea..
So take heart DF96, I'll be with you guys on this soon i suspect.
I can indeed see what you are saying by looking at all the glowing descriptions of what appears to be different specialised processors but very little infomation is available on the process itself.
Its almost like theyve comw up with an idea and fkogged the hell out of it in various forms of procesdor rather than standardising just one and sticking to it like dolby.
I had assumed that the processing was set hard and not teplicated in various 'products' that make you wonder what actually IS the real BBE.
waiting for a response from their company over why there is no entry for their processing method on wiki... not that its authoritative but it is an indicator that its not a widely accepted, true processing method. Dolby and stereo are listed on wiki bur not BBE...odd.
Got it BYRTT... I was initially swayed by the fact that some big names in consumer electronics like Sanyo, JVC and Alpine were adopting a feature that appeared to be standard in its operation.Compensate for inadequacies
BBE is not adopted in industry as a standard and its decode is not a reverse mirror of a known error, BBE is at its best shooting for a "kind of mirror curve" and therefor we are some that call it effects process, can't know exactly if it acts like the simulation in post 207 but if it does i call it a sommerhat and business more than a serious filter to improve waveshape.
What tipped my thinking was quite simple...
If BBE was as accepted as the big consumer usage would indicate .. then I'd be seeing at least a passing entry on Wikipedia. Not that wiki is an authoritive reference but its total lack of an entry suggests that unlike stereo and dolby that i expect and indeed are on wiki. .. BBE is not.
Further.. when I tried to see what their website said about this supposedly standard way of processing for realism all i was confronted with was processor after processor which dilutes and ironically muddies what standard BBE is about. Their own greed in diversifying what might have been a good metholology if they stuck with one theme and perfected it instead of flogging many versions to consumer markets..
Waiting to hear back from BBE about why their BBE is not widely accepted (wiki) and across the web generally.
Ex-recording/mixing engineer here. The BBE is yet another effects processor in the effects rack for the aspiring recording engineer/musician to play with during mixing. Similar to the Aphex Aural Exciter But rather than adding harmonics like the Aphex device, the BBE corrects phase. See this book reference for the correct history of these effects devices.
I have used both in the studio, among many other effects. How this is related to "stereo" or Dolby noise reduction is beyond me...
As far as correcting phase for ones listening pleasure, there are many tools that include the rest of the sound reproduction chain of DAC's, amps, loudspeakers and rooms. rePhase and DRC are freeware versions, of which you see on diyAudio where many members have used it. Dirac, Acourate and Audiolense are commercial versions. If one wants to correct for phase at the listening position, then best to use these tools rather than an "effects" processor.
For home effects, I sometime bring this into the circuit the Audiocontrol Phase Coupled Activator - huge fun for subharmonics! But again, it is an effect. If one is trying for accurate sound reproduction, this is not the way to go
I have used both in the studio, among many other effects. How this is related to "stereo" or Dolby noise reduction is beyond me...
As far as correcting phase for ones listening pleasure, there are many tools that include the rest of the sound reproduction chain of DAC's, amps, loudspeakers and rooms. rePhase and DRC are freeware versions, of which you see on diyAudio where many members have used it. Dirac, Acourate and Audiolense are commercial versions. If one wants to correct for phase at the listening position, then best to use these tools rather than an "effects" processor.
For home effects, I sometime bring this into the circuit the Audiocontrol Phase Coupled Activator - huge fun for subharmonics! But again, it is an effect. If one is trying for accurate sound reproduction, this is not the way to go
Ex-recording/mixing engineer here. The BBE is yet another effects processor in the effects rack for the aspiring recording engineer/musician to play with during mixing. Similar to the Aphex Aural Exciter But rather than adding harmonics like the Aphex device, the BBE corrects phase. See this book reference for the correct history of these effects devices.
I have used both in the studio, among many other effects. How this is related to "stereo" or Dolby noise reduction is beyond me...
As far as correcting phase for ones listening pleasure, there are many tools that include the rest of the sound reproduction chain of DAC's, amps, loudspeakers and rooms. rePhase and DRC are freeware versions, of which you see on diyAudio where many members have used it. Dirac, Acourate and Audiolense are commercial versions. If one wants to correct for phase at the listening position, then best to use these tools rather than an "effects" processor.
For home effects, I sometime bring this into the circuit the Audiocontrol Phase Coupled Activator - huge fun for subharmonics! But again, it is an effect. If one is trying for accurate sound reproduction, this is not the way to go
Thanks for your input mitchba.
It was the addition of bbe to consumer audio equipment that made me think this sound processor had wide appeal and indeed wide adoption similar to dolby.
From what I'd read at least the intension of BBE was to correct for inadequacies in the playback of amplified content and in this manner it is similar to dolby that compensates for inadequacies of the recording media or process albeit a different implementation totaly to BBE but the basic idea of 'correcting' was the same.
Im sorry that I couldn't get my point across.
Its almost as if any mention of dolby and bbe in the same sentence is forbidden even when talikg of their intention rather than effectiveness.
Globalplayer,
I wasnt aware of a bbe 'unit' until this forum. To me it was a user selection on consumer electronics from car radios to TVs to equalisers.
Given the take up by big brand names I guess I can be forgiven for thinking that it was widely accepted. Its not.
Its almost as if any mention of dolby and bbe in the same sentence is forbidden even when talikg of their intention rather than effectiveness.
Globalplayer,
I wasnt aware of a bbe 'unit' until this forum. To me it was a user selection on consumer electronics from car radios to TVs to equalisers.
Given the take up by big brand names I guess I can be forgiven for thinking that it was widely accepted. Its not.
Again, it is widely used everywhere.
Although some might not admit using it.
Then there is the "any processing is evil"-crowd...
For my part I don`t want to miss it in my rack.
But the knobs (EQ) are / is basically useless best is to turn them off/to zero and just turn the unit on.
If you want this effect cheap check out the Behringer SU9920 which is a inexpensive copy.
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