Look more carefully at the attached schematic, and the way caps and chokes are used. Only part of the schematic before LM 317/337 is important for raw power supply. Common mode chokes have parasitic differential mode inductance and are decent 120hz ripple filters, of course less effective than Hammond inductors. But they are much better at HF common mode noise.
I tried it as a raw power supply with my high quality phono stage with integral voltage regulators , and subjective impressions are very good,
If i ever build Paradise I will use it with Borbely voltage regulators. No-feedback regulators are a part of audio myths.
You are free to do, as you like of course
But have a look at post 7343 that is the last post in which the pre-regulator SCH was posted there was earlier in the tread a fair bit of discussion about the development of this circuit.
About the LM317 my personal experience is that they do strange things especially with large capacitors at the output or further regulation furthermore they are not needed as the existing on board PSU do pretty well.
Again I wuld look at FDW contributions earlier in this tread.
The pictures are of what I am listening to at the moment
Home brewed common mode cokes and PCB with very short and fat tracks
On the third picture the Futaba resistor (Now replaced by 5 Homs Holco 15 PPM) is strategically placed to allow for cokes to be out board.
But have a look at post 7343 that is the last post in which the pre-regulator SCH was posted there was earlier in the tread a fair bit of discussion about the development of this circuit.
About the LM317 my personal experience is that they do strange things especially with large capacitors at the output or further regulation furthermore they are not needed as the existing on board PSU do pretty well.
Again I wuld look at FDW contributions earlier in this tread.
The pictures are of what I am listening to at the moment
Home brewed common mode cokes and PCB with very short and fat tracks
On the third picture the Futaba resistor (Now replaced by 5 Homs Holco 15 PPM) is strategically placed to allow for cokes to be out board.
Attachments
Do not try to feed the CVS of the CCS of the shuntwith a regulated power supply, there is a good possibility that one of them (or even both) will oscillate.
Of course the team highly recommends a passive filter using a common mode choke as discussed before, and a board was designed by Bksabath see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/154210-mpp-438.html#post2861497 and later.
See also http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/154210-mpp-445.html#post2864700
And http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/154210-mpp-468.html#post2872390
Maybe this make things easier to understand
The topologies that draw on the SSLV regs family like FDW's used in the paradise they all utilize negative feedback. They just don't do it through a differential amp with a return point where the loop is an obvious part of the schematic. They react directly against changes on their output VS their voltage reference by transconductance. Any voltage supply system without an error correction form (a term which shouts "feedback!") is better be referenced with the term stabilizer than "no feedback reg". Its not a reg by definition IMHO. To regulate something in all nature is about some auto control mechanism. Needs to look at a result and to adjust an action in adequate time and force deemed successful for the purpose. Just looking at the screen as we type a post tells our fingers what key to hit next or delete and hit again. That's feedback of execution against an idea of what to express. The idea is the voltage reference allegorically speaking.
Good morning Sallas.
Perfect timing
I was going to post a bit more listening impresssions about my Paradise
I did make a small remark in the past about Paradise Compared to Simplistic with the Simplistic winning, I must stress this out of memory no back to back listening, the staging presentation.
I had a chance to listen again this time with a brand new (sealed copy) of Tubular Bells.
Mercury 270 353-9 box set 180g
There is quite a lot of panning and wery simple (one instrument) music on this record
I now have the impression that what the Paradise is doing is just letting the music flow
from groove to speaker witout adding anyting.
I will need to do back to back test to be fair.
I can say that I am eager to read 200 or more further listening impressions as now that boards are setling in the sound (but more so the lack of tampering) is there with the very best I had a chance to listen to, so much so that I wonder how badly biased my impressions are.
Perfect timing
I was going to post a bit more listening impresssions about my Paradise
I did make a small remark in the past about Paradise Compared to Simplistic with the Simplistic winning, I must stress this out of memory no back to back listening, the staging presentation.
I had a chance to listen again this time with a brand new (sealed copy) of Tubular Bells.
Mercury 270 353-9 box set 180g
There is quite a lot of panning and wery simple (one instrument) music on this record
I now have the impression that what the Paradise is doing is just letting the music flow
from groove to speaker witout adding anyting.
I will need to do back to back test to be fair.
I can say that I am eager to read 200 or more further listening impressions as now that boards are setling in the sound (but more so the lack of tampering) is there with the very best I had a chance to listen to, so much so that I wonder how badly biased my impressions are.
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Just don't put so different forms of circuits and executions in direct comparisons, there is no real conclusion to be drawn. Paradise is carved in stone having its definitive layout and PCB, its BOM. Beyond using BJTs in a much more rigorous architecture for spec. Then you can listen to many grades of a simplistic regarding parts, layout, regs, depends on the builder. Its a an SE loose concept with "artistic" DIY freedom embedded as its cornerstone. Vinyl is not an "exact" medium anyway. Its all about love. Its what satisfies your soul to listen to.
Absolutley right "comparing aples and pears" never the less I was silly enoug to raise the point to start with...
Not silly when its about what build of yours "travels" you best after a hard working long shift when knackered on your sofa. But just that, not to generalize. Paradise you can relay to others, more or less they get the opportunity to have one exactly the same after Hessener & company noble effort. Simplistic is just an avatar.
σας ευχαριστούμε
I like you dude you dig the Knakered on sofa and soul part exactley
Thing is my cheap and nasty build of Simplistic and Riccardo exuisit version give us both the same impression of space.
So there must be same special ingredient for it.
Aple and pears not one is better just different. (and me think) you being to modest about Simplistic
As you say Vinyl is not an exact medium (I am posting records catalogue numbers to try to remove one variable, still how old was the press master remains) apart from that the remaining component chain is the same including the room.
I like you dude you dig the Knakered on sofa and soul part exactley
Thing is my cheap and nasty build of Simplistic and Riccardo exuisit version give us both the same impression of space.
So there must be same special ingredient for it.
Aple and pears not one is better just different. (and me think) you being to modest about Simplistic
As you say Vinyl is not an exact medium (I am posting records catalogue numbers to try to remove one variable, still how old was the press master remains) apart from that the remaining component chain is the same including the room.
Sorry Riccardo posting as same time so I missed the bit when you decided to end this part of the discussion
Sorry again if you get mentioned in my last post
My question still remain
How to corect small difference in gains between Left and Right Boards on Paradise ?
Yes but it wuld spoil sound and ad signature where there is none (Paradise is to good for it
I am shure you can do better than that.
I am Just a "mechanic" and strugle to understand how things work altrought I got in front of me Page 89 of The Art of Eletronics (no need to name names as is also known as the "Bible").
Quote (maybe I shuld ask for permission first )
Figure 2.47. Improved current mirror.
One solution, if a better current source
is needed (it often isn't), is the circuit
shown in Figure 2.47. The emitter resistors
are chosen to have at least a few tenths
of a volt drop; .....
end quote
So maybe there is a non intrusive way to alter gain there, maybe by doing so is also possible to tweack the Off set, if there is same, by acting on small imbalances between "NPN & PNP" mirrors?
Or looking at the emmiter resistors on the 4 PNP&NPN Inputs. (input dc offset to cart.)
Returning to staging
Another side of the problem may lay with my set up and is caused by feed back from the speakers to the TT at low frequency <30Hz
I am shure you can do better than that.
I am Just a "mechanic" and strugle to understand how things work altrought I got in front of me Page 89 of The Art of Eletronics (no need to name names as is also known as the "Bible")
.Quote (maybe I shuld ask for permission first )
Figure 2.47. Improved current mirror.
One solution, if a better current source
is needed (it often isn't), is the circuit
shown in Figure 2.47. The emitter resistors
are chosen to have at least a few tenths
of a volt drop; .....
end quote
So maybe there is a non intrusive way to alter gain there, maybe by doing so is also possible to tweack the Off set, if there is same, by acting on small imbalances between "NPN & PNP" mirrors?
Or looking at the emmiter resistors on the 4 PNP&NPN Inputs. (input dc offset to cart.)
Returning to staging
Another side of the problem may lay with my set up and is caused by feed back from the speakers to the TT at low frequency <30Hz
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Tiny Litle bit
certanly less than audible 3dB
Maybe ball park figure 1dB even less as I am talking about left and right ballance.
Altrought a general way to tweack gain due to different cartridges may suit the General Population.
Or refering to Hessener Guide
voltages at the emiter resistors are 0.68 and - 0.69 Maybe the 10 mV difference is nothing and I am looking at the wrong place
certanly less than audible 3dB
Maybe ball park figure 1dB even less as I am talking about left and right ballance.
Altrought a general way to tweack gain due to different cartridges may suit the General Population.
Or refering to Hessener Guide
voltages at the emiter resistors are 0.68 and - 0.69 Maybe the 10 mV difference is nothing and I am looking at the wrong place
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The gain in the Paradise comes from the Gm of the input stage degenerated by the RIAA.
Provided that the RIAA components in both channels are the same and assuming that the
current mirrors are just high impedance polarity shifters the gain difference can only come from not so well matched input transistors from left to right. A ball park number of 1dB does not tell me anything. I need the EXACT value and when you are not able to make reliable measurements in the under 1dB range then it may be the limited resolution of your measurement system.
A naive reader may interpret " there is a gain difference " as a design flaw. That is the reason i am so strict here. The DC readings at the emitters you made have nothing to do with the gain.
Provided that the RIAA components in both channels are the same and assuming that the
current mirrors are just high impedance polarity shifters the gain difference can only come from not so well matched input transistors from left to right. A ball park number of 1dB does not tell me anything. I need the EXACT value and when you are not able to make reliable measurements in the under 1dB range then it may be the limited resolution of your measurement system.
A naive reader may interpret " there is a gain difference " as a design flaw. That is the reason i am so strict here. The DC readings at the emitters you made have nothing to do with the gain.