Check the efficiency of them. It is around 5% in free air. That is very high! Sensitivity is dependent on design
Limited to 1 watt it would have 97 dB band average in a box the size of a double 18 (around 500 liters). But because of the low qts it will have a huge peak at the tuning frequency and it will go to 103 dB. If limited to 2.83 V it would have 111dB with a peak of 118 ant tuning. But also just over the port frequency the sub gets around 50% in efficiency. If put in an extremely large horn ( and/or in multiples) this device can have a theoretical efficiency of 75% or more. So as a driver, it can't have a defined sensitivity because it is so dependent of design. Also sensitivity is dependent of impedance but efficiency not.
Maybe consider a compromise design.
Punch is usually centered around 120hz so if a straight horn with dual 15s is used that'll produce very good hit and cover the 80 +- to 400hz +- range. Add a pair of Dayton RSS460HO-4s in reasonable sized PPSL BR boxes that'll cover 80-24hz or lower to about 130db each box.
I find a good straight horn mid improves punch as well.
An alternate solution would be the Altec dual 12" straight horn DJK uses. That'll require subes to go to 150hz. Which is a stretch for PPSL 18s.
With my systems the JBL PD5922 with dual 2206s in a 7:1 compression plate loaded BR out punches a single AE TD15s in standard BR box. The 15S goes to 24hz the 2206s do an honest 40hz in my room. Compression loading and a very good midhorn are a big plus.
That being said, we were at a Whalers concert last night and they used 8 QSC powered 18s lined up straight across the middle of the stage. for a decent punchy sound. I wouldn't be surprised if 4 RSS460ho would go a full octave lower and louder given proper power.
Punch is usually centered around 120hz so if a straight horn with dual 15s is used that'll produce very good hit and cover the 80 +- to 400hz +- range. Add a pair of Dayton RSS460HO-4s in reasonable sized PPSL BR boxes that'll cover 80-24hz or lower to about 130db each box.
I find a good straight horn mid improves punch as well.
An alternate solution would be the Altec dual 12" straight horn DJK uses. That'll require subes to go to 150hz. Which is a stretch for PPSL 18s.
With my systems the JBL PD5922 with dual 2206s in a 7:1 compression plate loaded BR out punches a single AE TD15s in standard BR box. The 15S goes to 24hz the 2206s do an honest 40hz in my room. Compression loading and a very good midhorn are a big plus.
That being said, we were at a Whalers concert last night and they used 8 QSC powered 18s lined up straight across the middle of the stage. for a decent punchy sound. I wouldn't be surprised if 4 RSS460ho would go a full octave lower and louder given proper power.
You might find that the HT 18"s can go lower with their extra rated Xmax, but efficiency will suffer, and the HT drivers might not have the ability to take the extra power to get the SPL back. Remember modern PA drivers will take nearly 2KW for hours on end, and have sensitivities in the mid-high 90s.
Chris
EV sub comment
Roger
I bought a ZLX12P as a PC desk speaker but it doesn't have a lot of bottom end, when I looked at the EV 18" sub I couldn't believe they were calling it a sub!! Eventually I designed and built my own complete with a DSP equalizer using a JBL 12" long throw driver in a large sealed enclosure, this gives tight bass and punch due to the sealed enclosure whilst the thunder it adds to the bottom end has to be heard to be believed, things fall off shelves etc. I wrote a blog hereabouts a while ago about it, definitely a combination worth thinking about if you like to feel your bass but also like it tight and sharp. BTW who cares about efficiency with cheap powerful class-d's and drivers capable of absorbing a lot of power!
Roger
True, its a compromise dividing power to dual 15s where more power and punch is needed and dual 18s where deep bass is wanted.
wow that is jbl pd series
Yup, the mid horns are awesome. the big midhorn sounds good with all types of music even surf and rockabilly guitar. Big as life vocal articulation. I like the fundamental design too.
Simple, really.
HT drivers are often mid-low 80s of decibels at 1w input. PA drivers are often 10dB higher than that at 1W input. The difference is that PA drivers are often designed to stop around 40Hz, while HT ones aim to go below 20Hz, in a similar cabinet size.
2KW into one of the PA drivers would need 20KW into the HT driver to keep up. Modern drivers are pretty good, but I can't think of any single home theatre driver that'll take 20KW in the same way that a good PA sub driver will take 2KW.
Chris
The PowerSoft M-System has found some early adopters in the Pro "super sub" market...
Funktion-One Explores New Horizons in Bass Frequencies Thanks to Powersoft?s M-Force System
Funktion-One Explores New Horizons in Bass Frequencies Thanks to Powersoft?s M-Force System
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Richard Long's Bertha (2 x 18 bin) and Levan (mouth) was the main stay of the New York club scene in the disco days. The horn isn't for portable installs, the mouth was 42 x 96 inches and a few 42 x 120 inch mouth versions were made. The cabinet was 6 feet from front to back with the horn mouth installed. I helped Richard install a double pair of the 10 foot mouths stacked on top one another on each side of a dance club. The usual driver was a custom Eminence, the expansion was hyperbolic and it covered 25 to 100 Hz. With the increased power hadling of todays drivers I wonder what they could do with several kilowatts. There are a few builders around who build copies. EAW built some as well.
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If i am not mistaken Richard was all about appropriate power? A friend of mine learned from him and Dash and installed Twilos system - the Phazon. Things go blurry after a while but I remeber being shocking how efficient they were. Also the bumber car ride on Coney Island has a Long system redone by my friend that had a Long J horn and a bunch of nice gear. Not what you would expect for bumper cars
Do you by any chance have the dimensions? I want to try and simulate the 18" drivers i have, to see if they will work in that design
I used to rave back in the 90s.
The loudest system I've ever heard was the Skrillex Mothership system, from PK Sound.
For laughs, I tried modeling a 90s-style horn system, versus a modern ported system like the PK Rigs.
Much to my surprise, their overall output was quite close, the major difference was how low it went. Basically the 90s systems to hit deafening SPLs, but they weren't able to play into the 30s like PK can.
I'd love to hear a Matterhorn or a BC-218. I posted some sims here of the Matterhorn, which Danley commented on, and IIRC, it can play into the 20s! Unreal.
The Matterhorn can produce 105 dB SPL output at 250 meters, with a response -3 dB at 12 Hz.
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