leadbelly said:
No problem... that just ran into my dislike of how Macromedia encourgaes people to misuse Flash... sorta like the "if the only tool you have is a hammer, you treat everything like a nail" thing -- except in this case there are proper tools on the bench and thanks for the link to where they actually use them (far to many people don't).
dave
mike.e said:
All my sites are straight HTML to ensure maximum accessibility and compatibility...
Windows 95... well you know whatthey say "The box said Windows 9x or better, so i bought a Macintosh" (actually i bought my 1st Mac before Windows 1.0. By the time Windows 95 shipped i was spoiled.)
dave
planet10 said:
Riddled by TL072's? What does that mean? An op amp is an op amp.
Becuase you don't give him credibility or because you don't like something he designed, doesn't change anything about the ability to localize low frequencies.
What evidence is there that TL072's are somehow inferior or whatever you believe to be wrong with them?
Cyrus_s said:
A movie shouldn't be mixed that way as the LFE channel is optional and 'Story Telling' bass must go in the main channels. The LFE allows Commercial cinemas to get more bass headroom without changing all their speakers. It's worth listening to the LFE channel in isolation just to hear how little there is on it. If you're using bass management to redirect to the sub it's different story.
Back OT I run two subs in mono, symmetrically placed at the front of the room then an SOS auto Eq. removes the main room reasonance that's left. It sounds very good.
Unless your main speakers play down to 60hz then stereo bass will make a difference. You can read all sorts of paper on where bass becomes mono to us but unless you have listened to a lot of DIFFERENT setups you can't know for yourself. I have listened to a lot of home an car setups. I can tell you that the lower you crossover level on your subs the better. That is only if your speakers can play low enough though. I could go on about this due to the fact that there are many things to consider. I will say that having stereo subs does help a lot with speakers that can't play low due to the fact that you can cross them over higher then 80hz and you won't be pulling your stereo image in.
DJNUBZ said:
I don't know of many main speakers that WON'T play down to 60 Hz. My own go to 50 Hz using Scan-Speak 7" woofers. An electronic xover is set to 80 Hz for them and thenI just payed with the sub's xover which is aonly marked at the low of 50 Hz and a high of 150 Hz, until I got them to mesh without any outrageous peaks. There was a peak at 50 Hz that I Eq'd out and with the mains turned off I can't localize the sub.
Lower might be better for you, but I think the important thing is to get them to blend seamlessly. One of the adantages of having a sub is taking some of the effort off the low end of the main speakers and thereby reducing distortion.
As long as you get the sub crossed low enough that you can't localize it, and it blends with your main speakers, I think the job is done. AFAIK 80 hz is the standard and it's based on solid evidence, cedrtainly that doesn't prevent anyone from going lower if they choose. After all is said and done, you want it to sound right to YOU. Still, in the end my original statement is true, there is no such thing as stereo bass.
Bass is omni directional, second order and higher harmonics arn't. Subs are very high distortion drivers when compared to mids and tweets. These harmonics are what makes a subs location easier to find. If these harmonics are in stereo then the stage is pulled to where we expect it in a stereo setup. The only other way I have found to make a sub truly dissapear is to cross it over so that even the second order harmonics are omni directional. There are subs out there which have very low distortion and they can be crossed over a little higher and still dissapear in the room but I have found most people don't have subs af this quality. What I'm talking about isn't the end all be all on how to setup a sub but it can be used as a guide.
DJNUBZ wrote:
Thank you! This is the very first sensible explanation of how sub can appear to be localizable. It does not require tossing out the proposition that sub-100Hz (or so) sounds are non-localized - a proposition that is consistanr with my personal observation. That the sub proceses harmonics in the localizable band is perfectly reasonable.
My XO point is very low (~45-50Hz), not because of the reasons above but simply because that is the smoothest solution.
BTW, listening to music is an iffy way to decide whther bass is localizable or not. A lot of "bass" includes higher frequency clues to localization such as the initial impact when a drum, even a bass drum, is struck. I've had a Behringer EQ in the signal path for a couple of years with the spectral display active. It is very educational to compare what frequencies are present with what I percieve to be present. Even if you don't want to keep something like that in your signal path, I can highly recommend it for a few months sometime just as a reality check.
Thank you! This is the very first sensible explanation of how sub can appear to be localizable. It does not require tossing out the proposition that sub-100Hz (or so) sounds are non-localized - a proposition that is consistanr with my personal observation. That the sub proceses harmonics in the localizable band is perfectly reasonable.
My XO point is very low (~45-50Hz), not because of the reasons above but simply because that is the smoothest solution.
BTW, listening to music is an iffy way to decide whther bass is localizable or not. A lot of "bass" includes higher frequency clues to localization such as the initial impact when a drum, even a bass drum, is struck. I've had a Behringer EQ in the signal path for a couple of years with the spectral display active. It is very educational to compare what frequencies are present with what I percieve to be present. Even if you don't want to keep something like that in your signal path, I can highly recommend it for a few months sometime just as a reality check.
DJNUBZ said:
I still don't know of many normal speakers that won't play well down to 60 Hz. Unless the midbass drivers are very small 60 Hz should not be that hard for most speakers.
As I said mine are very good right down to 50 Hz and then the response is just gone.
When running test tones through my sub the response above 63 Hz is down over 10 dB. No matter what I play through it, music, pink noise or qarble tones I can't localize it.
YMMV
I'm using a 12" Mono sub myself, being given over 200W RMS
But my main speakers have dual 8" in each box and can play down to 35Hz. They have good bass by themselves, but the subwoofer takes over where the main speakers lack as far as bass is concerned. Makes the system sound fuller. And also having larger speakers sounds good, because it doesn't sound like the subwoofer is the only source of bass, as with smaller speaker/surround systems. My subwoofer is hidden from view in the corner of the room.
Also, most music seems to have the bass recorded in mono anyway. Most of the time, the bass is the same volume out of left and right, so I see no problem with a mono subwoofer.
But my main speakers have dual 8" in each box and can play down to 35Hz. They have good bass by themselves, but the subwoofer takes over where the main speakers lack as far as bass is concerned. Makes the system sound fuller. And also having larger speakers sounds good, because it doesn't sound like the subwoofer is the only source of bass, as with smaller speaker/surround systems. My subwoofer is hidden from view in the corner of the room.
Also, most music seems to have the bass recorded in mono anyway. Most of the time, the bass is the same volume out of left and right, so I see no problem with a mono subwoofer.
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