As I said I can't see any functionality of this 10 nf cap paralell to the switch.
The most of audio eq. like amps. usually have parallel cap. to the main switch around 4700pf or 4n7 direct or series RC 100ohm plus 4n7 to stop sparking which causes some pops or switching noises.
That resistor of 5,6Kohms is add to adapt Voltage standard U.S to EU standard of 220V old and new 230V except U.K , Austr. .....
That other Cap of 0.33mfd is very important, this combination of 0.33 mfd and 5.6Kohm resistor actually adjust RPM of the induction motor(pole shaded) type.
The most of audio eq. like amps. usually have parallel cap. to the main switch around 4700pf or 4n7 direct or series RC 100ohm plus 4n7 to stop sparking which causes some pops or switching noises.
That resistor of 5,6Kohms is add to adapt Voltage standard U.S to EU standard of 220V old and new 230V except U.K , Austr. .....
That other Cap of 0.33mfd is very important, this combination of 0.33 mfd and 5.6Kohm resistor actually adjust RPM of the induction motor(pole shaded) type.
I have seen on especially electric drills for eg that this supressor cap over the switch is a combination resistor and cap.
Like this for eg: http://za.rs-online.com/web/0209213.html
This is the capacitor reactance formula:
Xc=1/wc
where:
w=2pi*f(circle frequency)
pi=3.14
f=frequency (Hz)
c=capacitance in F(Farads)
Xc=reactance in ohms.
So you see that Xc depends of capacitance and the frequency.
Bigger cap= lower Xc @ given frequency
lower freq.=higher Xc for given Capacitance.
For a DC currents or (0Hz) theoretical Xc will be no end big value, but just in the theory.
Xc=1/wc
where:
w=2pi*f(circle frequency)
pi=3.14
f=frequency (Hz)
c=capacitance in F(Farads)
Xc=reactance in ohms.
So you see that Xc depends of capacitance and the frequency.
Bigger cap= lower Xc @ given frequency
lower freq.=higher Xc for given Capacitance.
For a DC currents or (0Hz) theoretical Xc will be no end big value, but just in the theory.
Well we have to back in the school again
your calculations are wrong.
You must use my formula 1/2pi*f*c, but values of a capacitor must be in farads, frequency in Hz and the reactance Xc will be in ohms
10nf=0.000000010 F-farads
and calculated Xc for a 10 nf cap. @ in our case Ac mains freq=50Hz will be
Xc=318309.8861837907(ohms) and if you like in Kohms will be
Xc=318.3098861837907(Kohms)
Because Mathematic is a problem than visit this and enjoy
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RC.htm
your calculations are wrong.
You must use my formula 1/2pi*f*c, but values of a capacitor must be in farads, frequency in Hz and the reactance Xc will be in ohms
10nf=0.000000010 F-farads
and calculated Xc for a 10 nf cap. @ in our case Ac mains freq=50Hz will be
Xc=318309.8861837907(ohms) and if you like in Kohms will be
Xc=318.3098861837907(Kohms)
Because Mathematic is a problem than visit this and enjoy
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RC.htm
Has the old Linn LP-12 supply any advantages?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1642945&highlight=#post1642945
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1642945&highlight=#post1642945
The reactance formula gives Xc=1/(2*pi*50*10E-9) or roughly 6.4 kohms for a 10nF cap at 50 Hz, - which I said earlier.
A capacitor across a power switch is used to quench spark noise from entering your system, -maybe causing loud pop noises through your amp and speaker..............
In this circuit, when the power switch is off, it will present another resistance of appx 6.4 k in series with the 5.6 k.
This may be the cause of the motor just vibrating, but not having enough power to drive the platter, because the total series resistance is now 12 kohms, instead of the 5.6 k in a normal operating mode.
This is why I said that this cap have a potential of causing more trouble than gain in this circuit. I also commented I could not see it in your pictures... is it maybe a tiny little gray/brown cap attached directly to the power switch?
Try to disconnect one lead at least... keep yuor volume down low...
Is the hum gone? Does operating the switch make any pop noises in your system?
A capacitor across a power switch is used to quench spark noise from entering your system, -maybe causing loud pop noises through your amp and speaker..............
In this circuit, when the power switch is off, it will present another resistance of appx 6.4 k in series with the 5.6 k.
This may be the cause of the motor just vibrating, but not having enough power to drive the platter, because the total series resistance is now 12 kohms, instead of the 5.6 k in a normal operating mode.
This is why I said that this cap have a potential of causing more trouble than gain in this circuit. I also commented I could not see it in your pictures... is it maybe a tiny little gray/brown cap attached directly to the power switch?
Try to disconnect one lead at least... keep yuor volume down low...
Is the hum gone? Does operating the switch make any pop noises in your system?
AuroraB said:The reactance formula gives Xc=1/(2*pi*50*10E-9) or roughly 6.4 kohms for a 10nF cap at 50 Hz, - which I said earlier.
A capacitor across a power switch is used to quench spark noise from entering your system, -maybe causing loud pop noises through your amp and speaker..............
In this circuit, when the power switch is off, it will present another resistance of appx 6.4 k in series with the 5.6 k.
What is this people, please????
How can you be so smart and calculate your Xc value!!!
If you don't know what is 2+2, than use the link of the calculator previously posted.
Zoran....
You're right....
But I still don't need that web page. All I need is being awake, and not sleepy at work 0600 in the morning
(Working a 14 hrs day, in bed at midnight, and up and shining again at 0445, isn't really beneficial for early morning brainwork...)
The now infamous 10nF being 300+ kohms instead of 6,4 k ( slept over the 50 Hz somehow I guess - several times!) just confirms my points.....
That 10 nF cap is either faulty to be replaced - or if that motor is still vibrating, just get rid of that cap - or replace it with maybe a 1 nF ?
You're right....
But I still don't need that web page. All I need is being awake, and not sleepy at work 0600 in the morning
(Working a 14 hrs day, in bed at midnight, and up and shining again at 0445, isn't really beneficial for early morning brainwork...)
The now infamous 10nF being 300+ kohms instead of 6,4 k ( slept over the 50 Hz somehow I guess - several times!) just confirms my points.....
That 10 nF cap is either faulty to be replaced - or if that motor is still vibrating, just get rid of that cap - or replace it with maybe a 1 nF ?
Thank's God
If I would lie someone I wouldn't be here on the forum.
I respect an old sentence :"If you can't help to someone than, don't make the things even worse"
Also I (we) would like to learn something positive, because " the human bean is learning until is alive" again what would older says.
Now back to the problem
Here is what I found on the net:
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/papst124_diagram.jpg
Or original link:http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html
I never had "Thorens TD 150", so I can't 100% be sure what causing this problem.
If this schematic is correct posted earlier by "Swedish man" and if that cap. of 10nf is originally placed by factory, than simply and logic is to try by replacing with new one.
Or I would de- solder one pin of that 10nf cap and see the result( like I mentioned before and also you)
Nothing bad can be done with this test( I mean to damage motor or ...)
I feel like the guy got scarred not to destroy turntable.
This is just what I think.
If someone know better I would like to see the result , mean solving the problem.
My regards to All
If I would lie someone I wouldn't be here on the forum.
I respect an old sentence :"If you can't help to someone than, don't make the things even worse"
Also I (we) would like to learn something positive, because " the human bean is learning until is alive" again what would older says.
Now back to the problem
Here is what I found on the net:
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/papst124_diagram.jpg
Or original link:http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/td124page.html
I never had "Thorens TD 150", so I can't 100% be sure what causing this problem.
If this schematic is correct posted earlier by "Swedish man" and if that cap. of 10nf is originally placed by factory, than simply and logic is to try by replacing with new one.
Or I would de- solder one pin of that 10nf cap and see the result( like I mentioned before and also you)
Nothing bad can be done with this test( I mean to damage motor or ...)
I feel like the guy got scarred not to destroy turntable.
This is just what I think.
If someone know better I would like to see the result , mean solving the problem.
My regards to All
Nice site zoran
The TD-124 seems to have another motor and other solutions.
I loosened up the cables and took another picture, then i noticed the 10nF is leaky and smeary.
Don´t like single breaker switches anyway, so i´ll take it away and put a double breaker on the back of case, with a new 10nF across it.
The TD-124 seems to have another motor and other solutions.
I loosened up the cables and took another picture, then i noticed the 10nF is leaky and smeary.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Don´t like single breaker switches anyway, so i´ll take it away and put a double breaker on the back of case, with a new 10nF across it.
OK!
Nice to see that finally something is visible wrong.
First just put a new capacitor same value 10nf(MKT) X type, which is used to be connected between phase and neutral, known as X-type safety capacitors:http://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html
If this replacing of the cap. solve the problem of turntable, than leave it like it is (original).
I thought before to say for a double switch.
The choice is yours now.
Please inform when you replace that bad capacitor.
Nice to see that finally something is visible wrong.
First just put a new capacitor same value 10nf(MKT) X type, which is used to be connected between phase and neutral, known as X-type safety capacitors:http://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html
If this replacing of the cap. solve the problem of turntable, than leave it like it is (original).
I thought before to say for a double switch.
The choice is yours now.
Please inform when you replace that bad capacitor.
Well,
those 16 pole synchronous motors like to vibrate when there is some voltage on them. I've the same with my TD160 motor (or was it a recycled TD150 after all).
My guess is that it has to do with a non-perfect phase shift of the phase shifting capacitor.
Anyhow it does definitely pay off to make a dedicated motor controller for it with an oscillator, power amp and step-up transformer(s). There are several threads on this in this forum. It won't be humming after that. Plus as a bonus you'll finally have the exact right speed and less
wow and flutter and less vibration ... Way to go !
greetings, MArco
those 16 pole synchronous motors like to vibrate when there is some voltage on them. I've the same with my TD160 motor (or was it a recycled TD150 after all).
My guess is that it has to do with a non-perfect phase shift of the phase shifting capacitor.
Anyhow it does definitely pay off to make a dedicated motor controller for it with an oscillator, power amp and step-up transformer(s). There are several threads on this in this forum. It won't be humming after that. Plus as a bonus you'll finally have the exact right speed and less
wow and flutter and less vibration ... Way to go !
greetings, MArco
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