Just for understanding , what is the most preferred location for the mltl port ? I think most of the bass frequencies will be output from the mltl ports .. so i think for a
- front port will be directly directed to the listener
- back port will be facing a wall or a corner to reflect the bass output in a bigger way to the listener
- down firing port will be facing the hard floor bouncing the bass output to the listener ..
Is my above understanding ok ?
Could you please tell , In which situations we prefer given port location ?
- front port will be directly directed to the listener
- back port will be facing a wall or a corner to reflect the bass output in a bigger way to the listener
- down firing port will be facing the hard floor bouncing the bass output to the listener ..
Is my above understanding ok ?
Could you please tell , In which situations we prefer given port location ?
That's what I did. Seems to work fine.
Attachments
Did you ever compare to the Cambridge Audio R50, Andrew? I am seriously considering building these as my first diy speakers, and I'm wondering what kind of performance to expect - for example what similar performance would cost from a brand name.
Thanks for input
Thanks for input
Approximately 360 hours in so far. Plenty bass but more importantly and noticeable is the quality / tone of the bass. I'm not sure if its the MLTL design and how it functions (probably is) but the bass tone and notes take on the qualities you often listen for in the midrange, for me at least. IOW, that clarity and separation of frequencies in the midrange I hold so dear are there in the bass as well.
Will soon be time to compare with the "baby" Alpair 6 MLTL. I know the bass output goes to the 10.3 but the rest will have to be compared.
Will also compare to Cambridge Audio R50's with upgraded crossover - 10.3's will lose in the bass
Andrew
Last edited:
Hard to compare, as in quite different sounding the R50 vs 10.3 MLTL.
The R50 is laid back, the music is all there but it does not have any immediacy or "thrill" to it. The bass goes deep but again overall the R50 fails to excite. Kind of like an under-seasoned meal, nutritious but somewhat bland.
The 10.3 MLTL is a more "exciting" sound in comparison but still not what I would describe as thrilling or exciting. They sound good but I think there is better. They need a smaller room, I'm using an approximately ~16' X ~38' room.
In my home office which is about 10' X 12' (where most of my listening has been lately) I have been using a pair of Tabaqs with Peerless 830987's or Visaton Solo 20's on Tubelab 300B's.
The Tabaqs with the the 830987's are just wonderful. The Alpair 6's ( the original model) better the Tabaqs though and I think overall are my favorites of all.
Both the Tabaq's and Alpair 6's are of course smaller drivers and I can't seem to shake the opinion that size has something to do with it, it shouldn't, but I think there is a relationship somewhere.
I am considering Scott's Twin driver Pluvia 7 PHD next based on that assumption and adding a tweeter.
The R50 is laid back, the music is all there but it does not have any immediacy or "thrill" to it. The bass goes deep but again overall the R50 fails to excite. Kind of like an under-seasoned meal, nutritious but somewhat bland.
The 10.3 MLTL is a more "exciting" sound in comparison but still not what I would describe as thrilling or exciting. They sound good but I think there is better. They need a smaller room, I'm using an approximately ~16' X ~38' room.
In my home office which is about 10' X 12' (where most of my listening has been lately) I have been using a pair of Tabaqs with Peerless 830987's or Visaton Solo 20's on Tubelab 300B's.
The Tabaqs with the the 830987's are just wonderful. The Alpair 6's ( the original model) better the Tabaqs though and I think overall are my favorites of all.
Both the Tabaq's and Alpair 6's are of course smaller drivers and I can't seem to shake the opinion that size has something to do with it, it shouldn't, but I think there is a relationship somewhere.
I am considering Scott's Twin driver Pluvia 7 PHD next based on that assumption and adding a tweeter.
Thanks for input Andrew. I've ordered a pair of 10.3M, apparently some speaker company in Finland went bancrupt or something and large amounts of drivers went on a finnish auction, and ending up on ebay now.
Don't know what to make with them though, will probably try them in open baffle first because its so easy.
Hi Jim, thanks for sharing your design. As I could find a couple of 10.3 on eBay for a very good price and found them having a nice sound, I mounted them into 12L cabinets I had laying arround. They sounded good in a 12m2 chamber, going in my living room bass was gone, they sounded too thin. So, I was looking for an interesting design and found this thread. Having Mangeplanars 1.7i I'm customized to big soundstage, so I decided to bye another pair and extrapolate your design to 2 drivers per box. Being uncertain about the results, I made them with 22mm particle board. It certainly would sound much better with birtch plywood. The fact, it seems to work better than expected. Damping has been done with foam, maybe not the best choice ? Would polyfill make big difference ? Here you can see and "listen" to the big brother: YouTube
Your speakers look and sound very good per the YouTube video. I'm happy that you are satisfied with the results.
For stuffing I recommend polyfill or AcoustaStuf. Also Meniscus Audio sells sheets of bonded Dacron which comes ready to insert into enclosures without the teasing and shaping associated with normal polyfill. I use foam stuffing in vented cabinets but normally don't recommend it in MLTL style speakers. For MLTLs I like to enclose the drivers (or drivers in your case) in the filling material from the top of the box down to a few cm below the lowest driver. Normally, no other filling is needed in the bottom half of the enclosure.
To extrapolate the single driver design to two drivers per cabinet: What I do in similar iterations is to place the drivers equal distance above and below the design location for the single unit unit. The cross-sectional area of the box is doubled for two drivers but the other box dimensions (height, port location, etc) remain the same. You can use two ports which are the same diameter and length as for the one driver design. Alternately for a single port design with two drivers, you increase the area of the single driver port by factor of 1.414 (square root of 2) for the new port diameter in the two driver variant.
For stuffing I recommend polyfill or AcoustaStuf. Also Meniscus Audio sells sheets of bonded Dacron which comes ready to insert into enclosures without the teasing and shaping associated with normal polyfill. I use foam stuffing in vented cabinets but normally don't recommend it in MLTL style speakers. For MLTLs I like to enclose the drivers (or drivers in your case) in the filling material from the top of the box down to a few cm below the lowest driver. Normally, no other filling is needed in the bottom half of the enclosure.
To extrapolate the single driver design to two drivers per cabinet: What I do in similar iterations is to place the drivers equal distance above and below the design location for the single unit unit. The cross-sectional area of the box is doubled for two drivers but the other box dimensions (height, port location, etc) remain the same. You can use two ports which are the same diameter and length as for the one driver design. Alternately for a single port design with two drivers, you increase the area of the single driver port by factor of 1.414 (square root of 2) for the new port diameter in the two driver variant.
Last edited:
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Jim. When extrapolating your project, I've respected as much as possible the doubling of the cross-sectional area, bracing and back panel frame calculated in addition. Also centre of the 2 drivers is at 90cm from internal bottom. The 2 drivers are each at 10cm from that point. Center of the ports are at 10cm from the internal bottom too, diameter 6,4cm, lenght 15cm . The internal dimentions are 20,8 x 30,3 x 110 cm. I think I'm not too far away from what you suggest ?
Last edited by a moderator:
I took a closer look at your dimensions and I think you should be OK. My only concern is that the internal length is 110 cm vs. 102 cm for my single driver box. But a longer line will tune the speaker a bit lower in frequency which most people would accept. Your cross-sectional area for your dual driver box is about double my single driver enclosure which is what I recommended.
If you have measurement capability, you could take some data to checkout the frequency performance in your room. But if you are happy with you what hear now, additional iterations are not necessary.
Jim
If you have measurement capability, you could take some data to checkout the frequency performance in your room. But if you are happy with you what hear now, additional iterations are not necessary.
Jim
Last edited:
Hi Jim, concerning sound, I'm never happy ! 
Only my main system is the one I can live with, even there are flaws, it's globally enjoyable. When the content permits, the feeling of being there is amazing. This doesn't usually happen on studio music but on live music, with a minimum of reverberation from the recording room. It is more obvious on video content. The French often do real sound recordings during filming, which allows you to hear the ambient sounds. This is perfect for judging the quality of a system. These Alpairs are excellent but don't achieve the same degree of sensorship of being there. I'm thinking of leaving the high frequencies to a ribbon tweeter. I also need to experiment with an open baffle topology. My first impression with this driver was the good midrange, then I was surprised with the bass quality, specially in this MLTL configuration. The highs are detailed, can sound even better than dome tweeters on symbals, therefor I recommand the little FX-tube01 preamp as it seems to restore some substance, sounding more realistic, at least, to me.
Snapshot is done with the mike on my listening place, facing directly to the drivers, quasi between them, no angle to the boxes. Under the 200Hz, the typical modes of my room, nothing unexpected there.
Only my main system is the one I can live with, even there are flaws, it's globally enjoyable. When the content permits, the feeling of being there is amazing. This doesn't usually happen on studio music but on live music, with a minimum of reverberation from the recording room. It is more obvious on video content. The French often do real sound recordings during filming, which allows you to hear the ambient sounds. This is perfect for judging the quality of a system. These Alpairs are excellent but don't achieve the same degree of sensorship of being there. I'm thinking of leaving the high frequencies to a ribbon tweeter. I also need to experiment with an open baffle topology. My first impression with this driver was the good midrange, then I was surprised with the bass quality, specially in this MLTL configuration. The highs are detailed, can sound even better than dome tweeters on symbals, therefor I recommand the little FX-tube01 preamp as it seems to restore some substance, sounding more realistic, at least, to me. Snapshot is done with the mike on my listening place, facing directly to the drivers, quasi between them, no angle to the boxes. Under the 200Hz, the typical modes of my room, nothing unexpected there.
