Manninen presents: Steel is Real

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Legis

Legis

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Joined 2009
Manninen you have done lots to the freq response, it looks very flat now. Do you know what causes the symmetrical suck-out 100-200Hz in both channels?

Good luch with the 1st and 2nd order filters! I like to use them usually, or even pure acoustical xo :D. You have good drivers for shallow filters, they are all well behaved.

Try this for sh*ts and giggles (might sound like shite :D)

18N862: (no highpass), lowpass 100Hz/1st order
18sound 15": (no highpass), lowpass 300-400Hz/1st order
B&W: highpass 400Hz 2nd order, lowpass 3-4khz/1st order
Beyma: highpass 4kHz/2nd order
 
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manninen

manninen

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Joined 2014
18N862: (24hz 24oct), lowpass 93Hz/2nd LR
18sound 15": 93 1st bessel, lowpass 450/1st bessel
B&W: highpass 450Hz 1st bessel, lowpass 2,5khz/1st bessel
Beyma: highpass 2,5kHz/2nd LR

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for the reference linear phase.

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new is left and linear phase is right. now have to listen few hours

suck out is from side wall and from floor. i eq´d nmb, fst and tpl. nmb and fst are tuned to sound good with out xo, some equing out of xo


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33080121/hifi/steelisreal/jakarit.mdat

theres the file, interested to hear some thoughts
linear phase has some room eq´ing
 
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Legis

Legis

Member
Joined 2009
Really good looking step response (and impulse) there with the shallow xo (upper in my screen)!

What happens if you lower the high pass of the 18sound to 24Hz/4th order like with BMS (3.5-way instead of 4-way)? Maybe it could fill in the floor bounce dip?
 
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manninen

manninen

Member
Joined 2014
i dont care about 100-200hz for now. speaker placement aint final, but suction came when i lift the nmb 50cm and sideways 20cm.
i could get few db if crossing bms to 120hz. im not gonna do it. but if hitting nmb to 24hz 70-100 gets too much, i have to take few db´s away from bms anyway
 
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manninen

manninen

Member
Joined 2014
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

damn.gif


new b&w midrange

damn!

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

changed little bit when i turn highpass off from bms.
there is few too many equin cause nmb and fst needs little bit different setup versus linear phase. writed bessel but butterworth are 1st xo´s, fst cannot handle 1st so i have 18volt limiter to bms, i hit 18volts really easy
 
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manninen

manninen

Member
Joined 2014
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


looks like this now. Bass isn´t so dark sounding located on top and it´s safe from refugee cat´s whos inda house.
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Changes to future:
15" it´s problematic, if not selling them and changing them i have to take dustcaps off,
motor is way too noisy for ob.
15" has plenty of power, single 18" can´t keep up, there´s room downstairs to another one. but i´m looking twin 21" allready, can´t say it´s gonna be killer anything but looks :)

This project really opened the gates of hell to speaker building, new project allready on my mind.
 
Legis

Legis

Member
Joined 2009
Manninen, is your TPL200 still without or with the wavequide in that polar measurement? 2-9Khz region is quite wide radiating, this can alter the tonal balance if the system is listened from further away and the room is participating. In near field listening it does not matter as much, if at all. If you feel there's too much energy in the upper mids/lower treble it can be compensated somewhat by decreasing the level in that region in front response with a wide PEQ, something like -2dB/0,1-0,3 Q centered at 5khz.

edit. I think a naked 18" woofer has it's dipole peak higher than 290Hz, somewhere at 400-600hz perhaps. Maybe it's the ~510Hz peak in the measurement. The 1500hz dipole peak sounds about right for a 6,5" inch naked midrange.
 
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Legis

Legis

Member
Joined 2009
That BMS has some impedance peak going on at 400Hz, I wonder what it is. There is no distortion peak at 400Hz although at 300Hz there is. Also there are much more "low order low pass" -compatible midranges out there, the upper end response looks quite ragged and it would not propably like to be xo'ed with 1st order filter.

Hmmm, double eights. Maybe. Hah, four eights per channel as a matrix around the B&W mid and TPL200 :D.

How does the 18" sound at 200-500hz?
 
manninen

manninen

Member
Joined 2014
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


System is breakin up like Dire Straits.

Steel is still real, im searching more zen and looking for silent motor speakers for next mordor tower.

For the note i got much better decay from boxed upper mid than 6" naked. i allways felt i had to do something for the 1500hz, i´d say it´s just dipole peak what comes from non acoustic room.

Same too for running 15" to near 500hz, that 10" feels better too, that peaks 1k and now runs to 400hz
 
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