http://www.geocities.com/sc00byd0159/mikessub.htm
link
some room gain can be 6-9db if in the corner,ive heard.
if this could fit in my car, that would be interesting also
comment on it it can be build very soon,order the driver in a few weeks.
im going to get another 100watt module and bridge 200watts x1 @ 8ohm later.
slowly but surely.
:-D
link
some room gain can be 6-9db if in the corner,ive heard.
if this could fit in my car, that would be interesting also
comment on it it can be build very soon,order the driver in a few weeks.
im going to get another 100watt module and bridge 200watts x1 @ 8ohm later.
slowly but surely.
:-D
Hope your not planning on putting it in the corner, though. Cause some wierd phase problems if you do that. depending on the size of the room, you should probably put it a third of the way back from the front wall. That is not for sure, but it will be better than the corner. A corner might work better if you had another sub in the opposite corner, though.
thanks
there is alot of info on room placement il have to read up on it.
i kno that my little sub in the corner already,does definately have some loud and quiet spots in the room.
it is possible to put it Not in the corner :-D(just)
after its build il use cooledit to see if theres any harmonics in the output etc just to see if cooledit can do it.
there is alot of info on room placement il have to read up on it.
i kno that my little sub in the corner already,does definately have some loud and quiet spots in the room.
it is possible to put it Not in the corner :-D(just)
after its build il use cooledit to see if theres any harmonics in the output etc just to see if cooledit can do it.
comment on sub
There's lots of sub 35 hz material in most music and in most instruments. I guarentee it, I've measured it, and I record it all the time. Its in the attack of strings, in particular.
The signal light on my sub amp - crossed over at 75 hz - goes on when an acoustic guitar player strikes any note. As you know, the attack of a string is noise - important noise and noise by definition is all frequencies (including low frequencies) . Hell, the attack of a bass string goes down to DC (0 hz) momentarily. Most engineers will filter this out for recording, but lately a lot of guys will leave low string attack in there and just sculpt it a bit, taking out stuff below 20 hz.
In my experience its all important to phase align the infrasonic with the mids - the resulting punch and realism is stunning. The low end is like underwater - once you live with great phase aligned low end for a while there is a whole new world to be discovered - and 55 hz may be technically low end, but the fun just starts there. I can actually move my head one foot in my studio and hear a 25 hz phase cancellation right where I would predict it based on the sub directivity, the room length, and the wavelength. Do I have too much time on my hands or what?
There's lots of sub 35 hz material in most music and in most instruments. I guarentee it, I've measured it, and I record it all the time. Its in the attack of strings, in particular.
The signal light on my sub amp - crossed over at 75 hz - goes on when an acoustic guitar player strikes any note. As you know, the attack of a string is noise - important noise and noise by definition is all frequencies (including low frequencies) . Hell, the attack of a bass string goes down to DC (0 hz) momentarily. Most engineers will filter this out for recording, but lately a lot of guys will leave low string attack in there and just sculpt it a bit, taking out stuff below 20 hz.
In my experience its all important to phase align the infrasonic with the mids - the resulting punch and realism is stunning. The low end is like underwater - once you live with great phase aligned low end for a while there is a whole new world to be discovered - and 55 hz may be technically low end, but the fun just starts there. I can actually move my head one foot in my studio and hear a 25 hz phase cancellation right where I would predict it based on the sub directivity, the room length, and the wavelength. Do I have too much time on my hands or what?
Did you look at adire audio's maelstrom? Also, the planet audio z-15 subwoofer might be ok for you but you'd have to contact the company about thiele small parameters, or measure them yourself. It looks interesting for a subwoofer designed to cause a small earthquake with minimal power. Sound quality is always a gamble on the unknowns, but usually the parameters give you a very good idea.
the maelstrom i would buy if i had more power
200watts rms into an 8ohm speaker is all i have.
if i used a 4ohm speaker with my amps bridged id hve a 2ohm load for each amp cookn them.
and running it in series voice coils,wud give me 8ohms with 3db less efficiency.im not a fan of sealed boxes..
the shipping costs to New Zealand are horrendous otherwise i would consider it.
thanks
200watts rms into an 8ohm speaker is all i have.
if i used a 4ohm speaker with my amps bridged id hve a 2ohm load for each amp cookn them.
and running it in series voice coils,wud give me 8ohms with 3db less efficiency.im not a fan of sealed boxes..
the shipping costs to New Zealand are horrendous otherwise i would consider it.
thanks
theom
>>There's lots of sub 35 hz material in most music and in most instruments. I guarentee it, I've measured it, and I record it all the time. Its in the attack of strings, in particular.
using cooledit 2000 freq response measurement,my music does not have much information below 40hz if it does its lower amplitude than at the normal 40hz+ region anyway.
i have made some tunes with some 12.5hz-30hz its fun considering my kenwood headphones can only do 20hz ,but u can hear it.(i sent those mp3s to my friend link who has his 18inch 350litreor so ported box.
some recordings will have some low freq stuff.
but im an enthusiast not a freak lol another link
what do u use to measure the low frequency energy/
i have heard of onebut forget the name it shows the bass area quite well
when i can afford a large amp and a 18inch ported box
or a 30hz basshorn then i will have a system thats ok.
>>There's lots of sub 35 hz material in most music and in most instruments. I guarentee it, I've measured it, and I record it all the time. Its in the attack of strings, in particular.
using cooledit 2000 freq response measurement,my music does not have much information below 40hz if it does its lower amplitude than at the normal 40hz+ region anyway.
i have made some tunes with some 12.5hz-30hz its fun considering my kenwood headphones can only do 20hz ,but u can hear it.(i sent those mp3s to my friend link who has his 18inch 350litreor so ported box.
some recordings will have some low freq stuff.
but im an enthusiast not a freak lol another link
what do u use to measure the low frequency energy/
i have heard of onebut forget the name it shows the bass area quite well
when i can afford a large amp and a 18inch ported box
or a 30hz basshorn then i will have a system thats ok.
If you can afford it I'd set the system up to be able to play -3db at 10-15hz. When I had a little sport coupe my sub played flat down to 30hz, had about 4db hump at 25hz, and was less than -3db at 10hz, and it makes a big difference (compared to flat down to 20hz and drop off quickly afterwards) in the sound of a lot of synthesized bass, and the lower end of a bass guitar. I'm new to the group delay stuff, but having the port tuned below 20hz will ?help group delay above 20hz? This would keep the audible spectrum more transient?
Dont know if this is anything you'd be interested in but it is some very high SPL bass units.
http://www.cadaudio.dk/bcprisl.htm
http://www.cadaudio.dk/bcprisl.htm
I definitely wouldn't take the Peerless 12 XLS
The Qts is to low.
The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @ 68.95Hz
As for the Shiva, its 4 ohms. You can use two LAB 12's if thats the case. And raise your efficency.
The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too Low.
You want a good low frequency 15 inch driver. McCauley 6242. But, with such a baby box, (100 Liter) you won't be going to those lower octaves. For your situation (Space Concerns) I recomend the LaB 12. Oh yeah, you can get them at Parts Express.
Just my $0.02
The Qts is to low.
The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @ 68.95Hz
As for the Shiva, its 4 ohms. You can use two LAB 12's if thats the case. And raise your efficency.
The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too Low.
You want a good low frequency 15 inch driver. McCauley 6242. But, with such a baby box, (100 Liter) you won't be going to those lower octaves. For your situation (Space Concerns) I recomend the LaB 12. Oh yeah, you can get them at Parts Express.
Just my $0.02
subs
the Qts is low for sure it reduces output low down due to being overdamped.
a more higher Q is desired i agree.eg Q=0.29
but i will crossover at 70hz so i wont notice the shelving effect.all i will have is a speaker -3db less efficient than realised.
ive never tested the lab12 in winisd.i will.
LOL--> ''the Qts is too low for the 18sound....''
Better too low than too HIGH hahahaha
it can be raised with amp output impedence adjustment
2 lab 12s=$$$
McCauley 6242=????
i cant import drivers-> im Living in New Zealand the shipping costs just as much as the speaker almost!!!!! . .
200litres max size is ok.
the Qts is low for sure it reduces output low down due to being overdamped.
a more higher Q is desired i agree.eg Q=0.29
but i will crossover at 70hz so i wont notice the shelving effect.all i will have is a speaker -3db less efficient than realised.
ive never tested the lab12 in winisd.i will.
LOL--> ''the Qts is too low for the 18sound....''
Better too low than too HIGH hahahaha
it can be raised with amp output impedence adjustment
2 lab 12s=$$$
McCauley 6242=????
i cant import drivers-> im Living in New Zealand the shipping costs just as much as the speaker almost!!!!! .
. 200litres max size is ok.
Re: subs
mikee12345,
I'm getting an EBP of 128 from that 18 Sound 15 inch driver
with the TS Parameters listed on your link.
This speaker would be great for a front loaded horn, and
terrible for a reflex design. You can find better driver than
this. Gotta keep in mind, 18 Sound (Like many pro drivers)
make speakers designed for reflex, and horn loaded
enclosures, and this one (With a QTS of 0.25) works best
in a Front Horn Load design.
Actually, its borderline between a Front Horn Load, and,
Rear Horn Load. But, this speaker will not produce the
goods in a Reflex.
So, what speaker you can get your hands on
without paying an arm and a leg for shipping?
Beyma
B&C
Precision Devices
RCF
I'm sure you can get your hands on one of these drivers.
Or possibly, another model of the 18 Sound 15.
Best Regards,
mikee12345 said:
LOL--> ''the Qts is too low for the 18sound....''
Better too low than too HIGH hahahaha
it can be raised with amp output impedence adjustment
mikee12345,
I'm getting an EBP of 128 from that 18 Sound 15 inch driver
with the TS Parameters listed on your link.
This speaker would be great for a front loaded horn, and
terrible for a reflex design. You can find better driver than
this. Gotta keep in mind, 18 Sound (Like many pro drivers)
make speakers designed for reflex, and horn loaded
enclosures, and this one (With a QTS of 0.25) works best
in a Front Horn Load design.
Actually, its borderline between a Front Horn Load, and,
Rear Horn Load. But, this speaker will not produce the
goods in a Reflex.
So, what speaker you can get your hands on
without paying an arm and a leg for shipping?
Beyma
B&C
Precision Devices
RCF
I'm sure you can get your hands on one of these drivers.
Or possibly, another model of the 18 Sound 15.
Best Regards,
8ohm efficient driver
ok im searching for those brands.....
i need 95db efficiency for a 15 and around 93db for a 12 which is EXTREMELY hard to find! and 8ohms.
if the EPB is above 100 why does this completely disregard making a ported box.i recognise that its less than ideal having a speaker that rolls off too high from having a very low Q...
i recognise that the Lowww Q is ideal for horns.
how do u choose rear or front loaded horn.
my ONLY other choice was-------
cerwin vega (car audio)
Fs=23hz
Vas=85litre
Q=0.3
Excursion=19mm
94db/2.83v
4ohm
12inch.
500$ NZ 250$ US abit pricey!!!!! but the efficiency is more than the shiva!! i could just go grab it but its 4ohm no use for my 8ohm bridged amp.
the only other contender is the shiva(4ohm)........
i have 750$ at the most to spend and
100watts into 4ohms,
i will have 200watts into 8ohms later,(but bridged so cant run a 4ohm speaker)so i really need an 8ohm speaker not a 4.
8ohm decent efficiency speaker????? il keep looking!!
ok im searching for those brands.....
i need 95db efficiency for a 15 and around 93db for a 12 which is EXTREMELY hard to find! and 8ohms.
if the EPB is above 100 why does this completely disregard making a ported box.i recognise that its less than ideal having a speaker that rolls off too high from having a very low Q...
i recognise that the Lowww Q is ideal for horns.
how do u choose rear or front loaded horn.
my ONLY other choice was-------
cerwin vega (car audio)
Fs=23hz
Vas=85litre
Q=0.3
Excursion=19mm
94db/2.83v
4ohm
12inch.
500$ NZ 250$ US abit pricey!!!!! but the efficiency is more than the shiva!! i could just go grab it but its 4ohm no use for my 8ohm bridged amp.
the only other contender is the shiva(4ohm)........
i have 750$ at the most to spend and
100watts into 4ohms,
i will have 200watts into 8ohms later,(but bridged so cant run a 4ohm speaker)so i really need an 8ohm speaker not a 4.
8ohm decent efficiency speaker????? il keep looking!!
Mike, if the $750 you have is USD, then I got a quad of LAB12's posted surface insured, duties (10% ) paid for less than that when the Oz dollar was 49c, not 60 like it is now. Just to give you a reference.
Quality preloved pro drivers from somewhere like www.jamminjersey.com can be gotten for a good price too.
Quality preloved pro drivers from somewhere like www.jamminjersey.com can be gotten for a good price too.
Omni, I cannot see your problem
> I definitely wouldn't take the Peerless 12 XLS
> The Qts is to low.
Omni, I cannot see your problem with low Qts drivers. There is NO reason a driver with Qts in the 0.2-0.3 range cannot work well in a vented or passive radiator system, in fact, they work very well. What reasons for this comment have you got to say the Peerless XLS 12" is not a capable driver? I have used this before, and am very impressed with its performance especially with its small box size. I am also not one to be easily impressed by subs.
> The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
> a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
> Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @
> 68.95Hz
This is incorrect. The XLS 12" I have in my Dual Passive Radiator box performs very well and extends to 20Hz at its F3 point, in a very small enclosure (50L). The Peerless XLS family drivers are a high quailty unit. Peerless has:
Rubber Surround
Cast Chassis
Aluminium Voice Coil
Faraday ring in the motor assembly for lower distortion
Extended pole piece for lower thermal compression
Lower Vas and Qts for operation in a smaller box
True 20Hz capability
Very small box
The LAB 12 also looks like a good contender, although there is not much information available on its construction on the web, it does have a well vented motor, cast frame and rubber surround. I believe it will also be an excellant driver.
> The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too > Low.
Again, I can see no reason behind this. Eighteen Sound make excellant drivers. The 18Sound sub I use works very well in its 300L enclosure (the website mike aka mikee12345 posted was mine). I have no idea why you object to Qts figures in the 0.2x range.
Back on track to the original posters message.... the 15MB700 15" driver which mike wishes to use will be used from 30Hz to the crossover point, which will be around 80Hz. I have not simulated this driver in a horn loaded unit, but for his first "real" sub we will keep things simple, he is after efficiency as his number 1 goal. He has considered horn loading, and the idea is still being played with. Basically he wants maximum output using the least amount of power from 30Hz and up. There are a few other Eighteen Sound drivers that would suit his application too.
Adrian
> I definitely wouldn't take the Peerless 12 XLS
> The Qts is to low.
Omni, I cannot see your problem with low Qts drivers. There is NO reason a driver with Qts in the 0.2-0.3 range cannot work well in a vented or passive radiator system, in fact, they work very well. What reasons for this comment have you got to say the Peerless XLS 12" is not a capable driver? I have used this before, and am very impressed with its performance especially with its small box size. I am also not one to be easily impressed by subs.
> The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
> a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
> Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @
> 68.95Hz
This is incorrect. The XLS 12" I have in my Dual Passive Radiator box performs very well and extends to 20Hz at its F3 point, in a very small enclosure (50L). The Peerless XLS family drivers are a high quailty unit. Peerless has:
Rubber Surround
Cast Chassis
Aluminium Voice Coil
Faraday ring in the motor assembly for lower distortion
Extended pole piece for lower thermal compression
Lower Vas and Qts for operation in a smaller box
True 20Hz capability
Very small box
The LAB 12 also looks like a good contender, although there is not much information available on its construction on the web, it does have a well vented motor, cast frame and rubber surround. I believe it will also be an excellant driver.
> The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too > Low.
Again, I can see no reason behind this. Eighteen Sound make excellant drivers. The 18Sound sub I use works very well in its 300L enclosure (the website mike aka mikee12345 posted was mine). I have no idea why you object to Qts figures in the 0.2x range.
Back on track to the original posters message.... the 15MB700 15" driver which mike wishes to use will be used from 30Hz to the crossover point, which will be around 80Hz. I have not simulated this driver in a horn loaded unit, but for his first "real" sub we will keep things simple, he is after efficiency as his number 1 goal. He has considered horn loading, and the idea is still being played with. Basically he wants maximum output using the least amount of power from 30Hz and up. There are a few other Eighteen Sound drivers that would suit his application too.
Adrian
Omni, I cannot see your problem with low Qts drivers
Not sure if I've already posted this message, I think it did not work last time I posted so here it is again
> I definitely wouldn't take the Peerless 12 XLS
> The Qts is to low.
Omni, I cannot see your problem with low Qts drivers. There is NO reason a driver with Qts in the 0.2-0.3 range cannot work well in a vented or passive radiator system, in fact, they work very well. What reasons for this comment have you got to say the Peerless XLS 12" is not a capable driver? I have used this before, and am very impressed with its performance especially with its small box size. I am also not one to be easily impressed by subs.
> The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
> a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
> Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @
> 68.95Hz
This is incorrect. The XLS 12" I have in my Dual Passive Radiator box performs very well and extends to 20Hz at its F3 point, in a very small enclosure (50L). The Peerless XLS family drivers are a high quailty unit. Peerless has:
Rubber Surround
Cast Chassis
Aluminium Voice Coil
Faraday ring in the motor assembly for lower distortion
Extended pole piece for lower thermal compression
Lower Vas and Qts for operation in a smaller box
True 20Hz capability
Very small box
The LAB 12 also looks like a good contender, although there is not much information available on its construction on the web, it does have a well vented motor, cast frame and rubber surround. I believe it will also be an excellant driver.
> The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too > Low.
Again, I can see no reason behind this. Eighteen Sound make excellant drivers. The 18Sound sub I use works very well in its 300L enclosure (the website mike aka mikee12345 posted was mine). I have no idea why you object to Qts figures in the 0.2x range.
Back on track to the original posters message.... the 15MB700 15" driver which mike wishes to use will be used from 30Hz to the crossover point, which will be around 80Hz. I have not simulated this driver in a horn loaded unit, but for his first "real" sub we will keep things simple, he is after efficiency as his number 1 goal. He has considered horn loading, and the idea is still being played with. Basically he wants maximum output using the least amount of power from 30Hz and up. There are a few other Eighteen Sound drivers that would suit his application too.
Adrian
Not sure if I've already posted this message, I think it did not work last time I posted so here it is again
> I definitely wouldn't take the Peerless 12 XLS
> The Qts is to low.
Omni, I cannot see your problem with low Qts drivers. There is NO reason a driver with Qts in the 0.2-0.3 range cannot work well in a vented or passive radiator system, in fact, they work very well. What reasons for this comment have you got to say the Peerless XLS 12" is not a capable driver? I have used this before, and am very impressed with its performance especially with its small box size. I am also not one to be easily impressed by subs.
> The LaB 12 will give you - 3 db (Normalized Gain) @ 25 Hz in
> a 100 liter box (Internal = 100 liters) tuned to 21.33 Hz (QL: 7)
> Try that with the Peerless 12 XLS, and you got a - 3dB @
> 68.95Hz
This is incorrect. The XLS 12" I have in my Dual Passive Radiator box performs very well and extends to 20Hz at its F3 point, in a very small enclosure (50L). The Peerless XLS family drivers are a high quailty unit. Peerless has:
Rubber Surround
Cast Chassis
Aluminium Voice Coil
Faraday ring in the motor assembly for lower distortion
Extended pole piece for lower thermal compression
Lower Vas and Qts for operation in a smaller box
True 20Hz capability
Very small box
The LAB 12 also looks like a good contender, although there is not much information available on its construction on the web, it does have a well vented motor, cast frame and rubber surround. I believe it will also be an excellant driver.
> The 18 Sound in which you post the TS............. The QTS Is Too > Low.
Again, I can see no reason behind this. Eighteen Sound make excellant drivers. The 18Sound sub I use works very well in its 300L enclosure (the website mike aka mikee12345 posted was mine). I have no idea why you object to Qts figures in the 0.2x range.
Back on track to the original posters message.... the 15MB700 15" driver which mike wishes to use will be used from 30Hz to the crossover point, which will be around 80Hz. I have not simulated this driver in a horn loaded unit, but for his first "real" sub we will keep things simple, he is after efficiency as his number 1 goal. He has considered horn loading, and the idea is still being played with. Basically he wants maximum output using the least amount of power from 30Hz and up. There are a few other Eighteen Sound drivers that would suit his application too.
Adrian
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.