Can you pl post a source for buying it in Italy from abroad? The company has not repled to my email enquiring about this.
I am in the Med which is not far away.
Hi fmak,
m2tech is the source, send them a new mail, they are probably very busy
ciao
Vale
appetizer
Thanx for the Pics.
In your opinion, how difficult is it to change from phono to bnc. The price difference seems high unless there is difficulty due to lack of space or whatever.
hi guys, just wondering here, I have a musiland 01usd i'm gonna tap the i2s or wimp out and do spdif for and integrate into a my friends dac. I have a couple of questions if you dont mind; i've read through the thread. IME normally bus powered USB devices need to perform a handshake to negotiate speed and enable the device using a series of pings on the 5v lines, this would mean the requirement for a device like the ADUM units in order to isolate the VA lines and use another power supply other than the bus.
do these devices not need this because of the proprietary drivers?? that would be great if thats the case; would make things simpler for my purposes.
and the second and most important question; how the hell do you get into these things without spraying the PCB with sparks and metal filings if a dremel or saw is used?? gotta love the lazy glue 'strain relief'
oh one more. is the i2s as easily tapped on the 01 usd model?? ie at the xilink?? seems it would be
do these devices not need this because of the proprietary drivers?? that would be great if thats the case; would make things simpler for my purposes.
and the second and most important question; how the hell do you get into these things without spraying the PCB with sparks and metal filings if a dremel or saw is used?? gotta love the lazy glue 'strain relief'
oh one more. is the i2s as easily tapped on the 01 usd model?? ie at the xilink?? seems it would be
qusp,
The ADUM won't work with the high-speed Musiland it only will do full-speed USB! I use an external +5V supply on 01US without problem. I presume you unscrewed both end plates? Mine wasn't glued in but the pcb board only slid out from one end & I can't remember which end at the moment. I presume you've seen my mods thread + pics?
The ADUM won't work with the high-speed Musiland it only will do full-speed USB! I use an external +5V supply on 01US without problem. I presume you unscrewed both end plates? Mine wasn't glued in but the pcb board only slid out from one end & I can't remember which end at the moment. I presume you've seen my mods thread + pics?
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yeah I realize the adum wont work now at least with the full res, I had looked into it before for another project.
yeah ive seen the thread, the one I have here is glued as well, both ends off and the PCB wont budge, though I wanted to confirm on here before using any kind of force. there is glue in the tracks that te PCB sits in; no sliding here unless I use some brute force
yeah ive seen the thread, the one I have here is glued as well, both ends off and the PCB wont budge, though I wanted to confirm on here before using any kind of force. there is glue in the tracks that te PCB sits in; no sliding here unless I use some brute force
I started a thread on the Musiland modding http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/155622-musiland-01us-usb-dac-i2s-into-sabre.html
New USB->SPDIF interface from italian company M2Tech M2Tech
Got mine running for a week with very good results, sound wise is much better than my previous tas1020 based M-audio Transit.
Data is pumped from PC using asynchronous proprietary protocol over USB 2.0 full speed link, two oscillators are available for locally generated clock upto 192Khz.
I'm eager to try out my hiface too, however what some may not know, the m-audio USB-transit can also work in asynchronous USB mode. You just have to feed the transit's digital input with a S/PDIF signal, i.e. from a CD-player.
Then the clock for the transit's digital output will not be derived from the PC but from the external source - asynchronously.
Works excellent, tested with all rates up to 96 kHz.
Charles
Hmm, that's interesting Charles, but is this a documented feature & is there a SPDIF input on the m-audio Transit? Is the recovery of the clock from SPDIF low jitter or just the usual PLL?I'm eager to try out my hiface too, however what some may not know, the m-audio USB-transit can also work in asynchronous USB mode. You just have to feed the transit's digital input with a S/PDIF signal, i.e. from a CD-player.
Then the clock for the transit's digital output will not be derived from the PC but from the external source - asynchronously.
Works excellent, tested with all rates up to 96 kHz.
Charles
I think it should be a documented feature, as the m-audio USB-transit is for recording and playback. Yes it has a Toslink input.
When you push a Toslink cable into the transit's input, it's output will be linked directly to that input clock, no PLL involved.
That means, that the quality of the output jitter-wise is quasi-similar to that of the input s/pdif.
Just try it out, it works very well.
Look here:
Altmann Attraction DAC setup
On this link Ferenc explains how it is done using the m-audio fire-wire converter, however it also works with the transit.
Charles
I think it should be a documented feature, as the m-audio USB-transit is for recording and playback. Yes it has a Toslink input.
When you push a Toslink cable into the transit's input, it's output will be linked directly to that input clock, no PLL involved.
That means, that the quality of the output jitter-wise is quasi-similar to that of the input s/pdif.
Just try it out, it works very well.
Look here:
Altmann Attraction DAC setup
On this link Ferenc explains how it is done using the m-audio fire-wire converter, however it also works with the transit.
Charles
Hi Charles
are you sure?
sync to external source is not documented in transit manual and it's not available from control panel.
however, regarding firewire audiophile model, it's clearly documented in the manual (http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/FireWire-Audiophile_Manual.pdf at page 41):
"Sync Source – This field allows you to choose between the FireWire Audiophile’s internal clock and an external clock source. Internal selects the incoming clock from the FireWire bus as set by your audio software. Use external when you wish to record from the S/PDIF inputs, or otherwise lock to the sample rate from an external S/PDIF source."
ciao
Vale
External sync definitely works with the USB-transit. It is implemented automatically. As soon as you insert a Toslink connector to the input, there will be sync to the external clock. There is a contact switch inside, so the switches to slave-clock, else the PC is clock master.
I came first to know 5 years ago when I called m-audio tech support, as my transit was not working. The Techie asked if I had connected something to its input, I said yes, but only an Toslink mini adapter, without the cable, then he told me about the switch, that is activated upon insertion, and then chose external sync.
My 2nd incident was when I was making 96kHz vinyl recorings with my Creation ADC feeding the transit's input and my Attraction DAC used as monitor. Upon playback of the recording, the sound was excellent. When I later played it back to a friend, the Creation ADC was off and disconnected, so the clock came from the PC, and it was not the same sound quality. Connecting back the ADC to the transit, the good sound came back again, the ADC was just giving its pure clock in form of a S/PDIF zero stream. So I learned that this USB jitter can have some very unpleasant low frequency characteristics that are difficult to filter even by the most advanced VCXO PLL's.
The 3rd case is when a PC's clock generator is so far off the nominal sample-rate, that a VCXO based DAC (Attraction) cannot lock on the signal, as even the pulling range of +-150ppm is not enough to follow the signal.
This is the case with quite some PC's, however it never seems to be the case with Macs. So there will be no lock with off-frequency PC's playing to the Attraction DAC via the USB-transit. The remedy is simply to feed the transit with an external signal that is on nominal sample-rate, i.e. from a simple CD-player.
Charles
Of course I do not really recommend buying the USB-transit when we can buy the m2tech hiface for this very competitive price, except perhaps, you want the digital input too (recording).
The hiface has dedicated precision audio clocks on board and works as clock master, so there will be no locking problems with any DAC. They did a great job on this, hopefully they really get it running 192 kHz on the MAC, I think they'd be the first.
Even Apple seems unable to get their internal optical output running at 192kHz even though they specify it 192kHz capable for years now:
Mac mini (Early 2009) and Mac mini (Late 2009): External Ports and Connectors
I have heard from somebody, that it is possible to activate 192kHz on this in-built optical output in a bit-perfect fashion, as soon as you boot your MAC under Windows LOL
Charles
The hiface has dedicated precision audio clocks on board and works as clock master, so there will be no locking problems with any DAC. They did a great job on this, hopefully they really get it running 192 kHz on the MAC, I think they'd be the first.
Even Apple seems unable to get their internal optical output running at 192kHz even though they specify it 192kHz capable for years now:
Mac mini (Early 2009) and Mac mini (Late 2009): External Ports and Connectors
I have heard from somebody, that it is possible to activate 192kHz on this in-built optical output in a bit-perfect fashion, as soon as you boot your MAC under Windows LOL
Charles
External sync definitely works with the USB-transit. It is implemented automatically. As soon as you insert a Toslink connector to the input, there will be sync to the external clock. There is a contact switch inside, so the switches to slave-clock, else the PC is clock master.
I came first to know 5 years ago when I called m-audio tech support, as my transit was not working. The Techie asked if I had connected something to its input, I said yes, but only an Toslink mini adapter, without the cable, then he told me about the switch, that is activated upon insertion, and then chose external sync.
My 2nd incident was when I was making 96kHz vinyl recorings with my Creation ADC feeding the transit's input and my Attraction DAC used as monitor. Upon playback of the recording, the sound was excellent. When I later played it back to a friend, the Creation ADC was off and disconnected, so the clock came from the PC, and it was not the same sound quality. Connecting back the ADC to the transit, the good sound came back again, the ADC was just giving its pure clock in form of a S/PDIF zero stream. So I learned that this USB jitter can have some very unpleasant low frequency characteristics that are difficult to filter even by the most advanced VCXO PLL's.
The 3rd case is when a PC's clock generator is so far off the nominal sample-rate, that a VCXO based DAC (Attraction) cannot lock on the signal, as even the pulling range of +-150ppm is not enough to follow the signal.
This is the case with quite some PC's, however it never seems to be the case with Macs. So there will be no lock with off-frequency PC's playing to the Attraction DAC via the USB-transit. The remedy is simply to feed the transit with an external signal that is on nominal sample-rate, i.e. from a simple CD-player.
Charles
Ok, Charles, that seems to be all the evidence needed! Well done.
Two things occur to me:
- this is asynchronous reclocking then? i.e. the clock is not synchronised with the data?
- this works because of another chip sending some commands to the TA1020 chip, I presume?
Interesting none-the-less. It would be interesting to discover the exact meachanism by which this works i.e what commands are sent to TAS1020?
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Thanks Charles for your contribution, according to your experience, it seems that transit lock to external sync in some way, even if I doubt it's truly asynchronous protocol from PC.
As John is suggesting it could be asynchronous reclocking. Have to check chip part no.
ciao
Regards
Valeriano
I think the transit's audio codec AK4584 locks to the external S/PDIF signal (via its integrated PLL) and generates a master clock from this, which then clocks out the data at the same rate. The output S/PDIF is then independent from the PC clock.
I don't like the term asynchronous USB, for me it is a question who is the clock master. Deriving a clock from USB is always bad. The USB device must be the clock-master in order to expect decent performance and the clock should be a true audio-frequency from a good oscillator.
Now I think you don't like that the transit's audio codec generates the master clock from the external input s/pdif signal via PLL. But this is needed, at least if you want to record something ...
If it is only for playback, there may be a way to implement a dedicated master clock. Perhaps if you follow the s/pdif input switch trace, which selects external vs. PC clock ...
However, if the hiface already does it and does it good, so what's the point ...
Charles
I don't like the term asynchronous USB, for me it is a question who is the clock master. Deriving a clock from USB is always bad. The USB device must be the clock-master in order to expect decent performance and the clock should be a true audio-frequency from a good oscillator.
Now I think you don't like that the transit's audio codec generates the master clock from the external input s/pdif signal via PLL. But this is needed, at least if you want to record something ...
If it is only for playback, there may be a way to implement a dedicated master clock. Perhaps if you follow the s/pdif input switch trace, which selects external vs. PC clock ...
However, if the hiface already does it and does it good, so what's the point ...
Charles
Yes, the m-audio USB-transit uses what one may call 'adaptive mode', when it does not get an external input signal. Then it is a slave to the PC's clock and the performance is also dependent on the PC's clock and ... suboptimal.
However, as soon as you give it an external S/PDIF signal, the clock from the external signal is the clock of the output signal and the PC is clock slave.
I have bought my USB-transit in 2004 and I am using it in asynchronous mode since then. It works very well.
However, it will only do up to 96kHz on the PC and only up to 48kHz on the mac.
Charles
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