INTERESTING UPDATE:
I received some clarification today from Wayne Parham, who wrote that "push pull" article in which he said that P-P is more applicable when the 2 drivers share a common enclosure volume. I thought that was odd, and troubling as I'm considering internally separating my drivers.
His response, if I understand hi correctly, is that it's simply easier with a shared chamber.
With separate chambers, it becomes very difficult to keep the tuning the same, since a different amount of internal volume is taken up by each driver.
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Makes sense. So now I have to decide which might give a greater benefit:
The somewhat difficult task of making these P-P, or the fairly easy task of adding an internal divider.
The first will cost me some internal volume, thus I might have to modify the ports, etc, but the latter is not easily reversible. Ughh .......
I received some clarification today from Wayne Parham, who wrote that "push pull" article in which he said that P-P is more applicable when the 2 drivers share a common enclosure volume. I thought that was odd, and troubling as I'm considering internally separating my drivers.
His response, if I understand hi correctly, is that it's simply easier with a shared chamber.
With separate chambers, it becomes very difficult to keep the tuning the same, since a different amount of internal volume is taken up by each driver.
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Makes sense. So now I have to decide which might give a greater benefit:
The somewhat difficult task of making these P-P, or the fairly easy task of adding an internal divider.
The first will cost me some internal volume, thus I might have to modify the ports, etc, but the latter is not easily reversible. Ughh .......
I'll keep saying this: those subs use cheap drivers. The tweaks you're looking at will have effects in the 1-10% range. What you need is something that's 100% better. Messing with internal dividers, flared ports, or push-pull mounting will not save a pair of low-end drivers when you start to hammer them.
Sure, it might be fun to play around with some cabinets, but you're going to seriously hurt the resale value. As soon as you take a tool to those cabinets, you've just taken a good handful of cash, and put it in the bin.
If you would like to play with cabinets, I'd recommend spending £20 and getting one of those pre-made car subs off eBay. They're reasonably solidly built, and if you take a holesaw to them, you're only down £20.
A couple of THAM15s, or a block of four Tiny15s will easily do what you want, at SPLs these 2x12"s can only dream of.
It's your money, of course, and you're welcome to spend/waste it however you choose, but I think it's time to get real and look at something that's actually going to do the job you ask of it.
To put it in recording terms, you're trying to use a pair of Fostex 6301s to mix/master EDM. Sure, another handful of stuffing might get a tiny bit more bass out of them, but it's just not the right tool for the job.
Chris
Sure, it might be fun to play around with some cabinets, but you're going to seriously hurt the resale value. As soon as you take a tool to those cabinets, you've just taken a good handful of cash, and put it in the bin.
If you would like to play with cabinets, I'd recommend spending £20 and getting one of those pre-made car subs off eBay. They're reasonably solidly built, and if you take a holesaw to them, you're only down £20.
A couple of THAM15s, or a block of four Tiny15s will easily do what you want, at SPLs these 2x12"s can only dream of.
It's your money, of course, and you're welcome to spend/waste it however you choose, but I think it's time to get real and look at something that's actually going to do the job you ask of it.
To put it in recording terms, you're trying to use a pair of Fostex 6301s to mix/master EDM. Sure, another handful of stuffing might get a tiny bit more bass out of them, but it's just not the right tool for the job.
Chris
Chris, while I appreciate your thoughts, and while some of that would make sense in the right context, you're almost complete off the mark, as regards my situation.
I need to use what I have, right now. This isn't theoretical, and I'm not going to use cheap car subs for professional gigs. Plus, there are considerations like cabinet size & dimensions vs my truck, efficiency, etc. In fact, efficiency is probably the reason Line 6 used cheap drivers. Everything's a trade-off.
You should also know that Jeff at JTR claims HIS dual 12" design is 103 dB. - More efficient, according to him, than any 18" sub he's ever built. So......
A couple of THAM15s would be lovely. Can I hire you to bring them to my gigs for me?
I AM considering small 12" horns, but they may not go low enough, and 2 may not give enough output for my needs, yet three would never fit. For of your little 15" boxes might work, and are high on my list right now, but I'm pretty sure at this point that I don't like the sound of standard BR designs. I'm not sure yet, but I've yet to hear one that doesn't make me want to puke.
Very high on my list right now is a vented, dual 12" PPSL, though I can't find plans and I'm not ready to calculate my own boxes.
And regardless what I might build, I'd STILL have to be using what I have now, in the mean time. Understand?
I need to use what I have, right now. This isn't theoretical, and I'm not going to use cheap car subs for professional gigs. Plus, there are considerations like cabinet size & dimensions vs my truck, efficiency, etc. In fact, efficiency is probably the reason Line 6 used cheap drivers. Everything's a trade-off.
You should also know that Jeff at JTR claims HIS dual 12" design is 103 dB. - More efficient, according to him, than any 18" sub he's ever built. So......
A couple of THAM15s would be lovely. Can I hire you to bring them to my gigs for me?
I AM considering small 12" horns, but they may not go low enough, and 2 may not give enough output for my needs, yet three would never fit. For of your little 15" boxes might work, and are high on my list right now, but I'm pretty sure at this point that I don't like the sound of standard BR designs. I'm not sure yet, but I've yet to hear one that doesn't make me want to puke.
Very high on my list right now is a vented, dual 12" PPSL, though I can't find plans and I'm not ready to calculate my own boxes.
And regardless what I might build, I'd STILL have to be using what I have now, in the mean time. Understand?
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I understand your situation now.
In that case, I'd recommend auditioning some well-done bass reflex cabinets, and going from there. See if you can get a demo from a local PA hire place.
If you're within a sensible driving distance, it sounds like I can hire you all the PA speakers you might need. If it's a non-sensible driving distance, it might get expensive. If you're serious, send me a message. I'd also be happy to sell you a set of the Tiny15 subs (plus a configured amplifier if you like) and build some more for myself.
Chris
In that case, I'd recommend auditioning some well-done bass reflex cabinets, and going from there. See if you can get a demo from a local PA hire place.
If you're within a sensible driving distance, it sounds like I can hire you all the PA speakers you might need. If it's a non-sensible driving distance, it might get expensive. If you're serious, send me a message. I'd also be happy to sell you a set of the Tiny15 subs (plus a configured amplifier if you like) and build some more for myself.
Chris
Looks like some contraditory things. If you are looking for efficiency you want to add more drivers to increase output SPL and not to reduce distortion, so PPSL will not help you and this is the reason you have some difficulties to find a good plan, probably they are not used at professional gig.
Other then a lot of things already said related to cab types, one interesting thing I would recall is the dependence of DSP, TH design "must" have DSP assosiated with, Vented box in the other hand you can make it work without DSP so it gives you more flexibility.
Nothing can compete with Horn if efficiency is your target.
Thanks, I have been wondering about this.
That Wayne Parham design looks so inviting.... But the cabinets seem to small to be realistically efficient, & no one is giving efficiency numbers.
Still, a small PPSL that is horn loaded could be just the ticket. Maybe dual 12", or even four cabs of dual 10", if a suitable driver could be found.
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