I came into this thread looking for inexpensive options to Fostex and Mark Audio available close by in the US. Not a lot of that but there is this tip:
My beginnings in the hobby was sparked by reading Speaker Builder mag. In that the designs of Bill Fitzmaurice were featured monthly. He specializes in hand-built and user built efficient designs for musicians. It would be worth a look at his forum here:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
Fitz's designs are gob smackingly intricate and for that reason are artistic in expression. They are for sale at a nominal rate and include building instructions. Some builders of Fitz's designs are also listed. Musicians building for musicians.
My beginnings in the hobby was sparked by reading Speaker Builder mag. In that the designs of Bill Fitzmaurice were featured monthly. He specializes in hand-built and user built efficient designs for musicians. It would be worth a look at his forum here:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/
Fitz's designs are gob smackingly intricate and for that reason are artistic in expression. They are for sale at a nominal rate and include building instructions. Some builders of Fitz's designs are also listed. Musicians building for musicians.
Wow, thanks for all the replies.
Since we aren't mentioning that other manufacturer (although while we're not on the subject, a bassist friend tells me the 802's?803's? were a popular solution back in the day and he has a whole bunch of them still... but isn't using them...) yes, that other manufacturer, I won't mention this one, but these speakers are salvaged from a commercially available bass guitar cabinet. All the cabinets this Peanut Butter and Jelly folks make use these same 5 1/4" speakers, in numbers from four to twenty four. I had a stack of two of their cabs yielding 8 speakers high and two wide, and the sound pressure was rather more than adequate- actually it was deafening, quite literally, even outdoors. The off axis response was very poor. My understanding (a work in progress for sure) is that the narrower the speaker horizontally the better the off axis response will be at increasingly high frequencies. The cabinets I have built with these speakers so far seem indeed to bear this out. I wasn't overwhelming the speakers quite as easily either, with the original factory cabinets. The bass was loud and clear and deep and clean- same amp flat to 10 hz. For whatever reason, the system really bloomed and took on a beautiful character when the speakers were getting hit hard- but it was WAY too loud... and lousy off axis response.
I originally sought out this cab because I was at a show with a 4x5 1/4" cabinet providing all the bass for a power trio, and it was the tightest most focused bass guitar sound I had heard in a long time, maybe ever.
I'm totally delighted with the sound dispersion from the new cabs I built- that much is great. My next attempt will more than double the internal volume and hence increase the port size, and hopefully the speakers will behave better.
I'm such a mad puriste and this rig was working so beautifully (except that off axis response- did I mention that?) that I'm really hesitant to put a low rolloff in line, but when I do it will be the simplest possible circuit. An LCR design? Did I get that rite? (sorry, couldn't resist a little missspellling...)
However I'm still interested in finding some better speakers, so I will be investigating the various leads suggested so far- thanks again!
Since we aren't mentioning that other manufacturer (although while we're not on the subject, a bassist friend tells me the 802's?803's? were a popular solution back in the day and he has a whole bunch of them still... but isn't using them...) yes, that other manufacturer, I won't mention this one, but these speakers are salvaged from a commercially available bass guitar cabinet. All the cabinets this Peanut Butter and Jelly folks make use these same 5 1/4" speakers, in numbers from four to twenty four. I had a stack of two of their cabs yielding 8 speakers high and two wide, and the sound pressure was rather more than adequate- actually it was deafening, quite literally, even outdoors. The off axis response was very poor. My understanding (a work in progress for sure) is that the narrower the speaker horizontally the better the off axis response will be at increasingly high frequencies. The cabinets I have built with these speakers so far seem indeed to bear this out. I wasn't overwhelming the speakers quite as easily either, with the original factory cabinets. The bass was loud and clear and deep and clean- same amp flat to 10 hz. For whatever reason, the system really bloomed and took on a beautiful character when the speakers were getting hit hard- but it was WAY too loud... and lousy off axis response.
I originally sought out this cab because I was at a show with a 4x5 1/4" cabinet providing all the bass for a power trio, and it was the tightest most focused bass guitar sound I had heard in a long time, maybe ever.
I'm totally delighted with the sound dispersion from the new cabs I built- that much is great. My next attempt will more than double the internal volume and hence increase the port size, and hopefully the speakers will behave better.
I'm such a mad puriste and this rig was working so beautifully (except that off axis response- did I mention that?) that I'm really hesitant to put a low rolloff in line, but when I do it will be the simplest possible circuit. An LCR design? Did I get that rite? (sorry, couldn't resist a little missspellling...)
However I'm still interested in finding some better speakers, so I will be investigating the various leads suggested so far- thanks again!
Since the speakers are salvaged and I detected some hostility to the idea from the manufacturer (and I don't have a tone generator to sweep them) I am limited to guesstimation (sp?) but judging by the original cabinet volume and it's bass reflex design the resonant frequency of these things is around 40 hz. The volume of the cabs I just built is probably a third of a cubic foot apiece, and my hack/intuitive port is 1" ID and maybe 5 inches long. First guess- I need some more internal volume...
I seem to be loosing it, and confused
or my english is letting me down
hmm, let me see if I understand you correctly
you bought these woofers because they were the best you have ever heard
you now have conclude that these 5" woofers do not handle the power very well
but you want to continue with 5" woofers, and search alternatives
alternatives to what woofer ?
is there at least a picture of something ?
and why two threads ? its confusing
or my english is letting me down
hmm, let me see if I understand you correctly
you bought these woofers because they were the best you have ever heard
you now have conclude that these 5" woofers do not handle the power very well
but you want to continue with 5" woofers, and search alternatives
alternatives to what woofer ?
is there at least a picture of something ?
and why two threads ? its confusing
Or maybe I'm not being all that clear?
The speakers I'm using now look very much like (especially the distinctive lopped-off-square surrounds) Aurum Cantus AC130/F35 midwoofers. The manufacturer claims their speakers are proprietary, but it looks very much like they had Aurum Cantus build them. The cones look different, but all else looks the same and the specs seem right.
The speakers I'm using now look very much like (especially the distinctive lopped-off-square surrounds) Aurum Cantus AC130/F35 midwoofers. The manufacturer claims their speakers are proprietary, but it looks very much like they had Aurum Cantus build them. The cones look different, but all else looks the same and the specs seem right.
then it is different
right compared to what
nice hifi midrange
Hi,
Around a 1/3 of a cuft per driver is not unreasonable. A 1" dia 5" length port
per driver would tune them low, around 33Hz, but the other thread states
your using a 1" slot the full length of the cabinet, 5" deep it wont tune them
anywhere near bottom E, it will be much higher, and they'll overload easily
for all frequencies below the port tuning, producing little output to boot.
rgds, sreten.
Around a 1/3 of a cuft per driver is not unreasonable. A 1" dia 5" length port
per driver would tune them low, around 33Hz, but the other thread states
your using a 1" slot the full length of the cabinet, 5" deep it wont tune them
anywhere near bottom E, it will be much higher, and they'll overload easily
for all frequencies below the port tuning, producing little output to boot.
rgds, sreten.
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I was just teasing about Bose, feel free to mention anyone you want. (In fact, I may have been the inspiration for the 801s. We used to turn the 901s around, and tell customers they sounded more like a rock concert that way. We got a "cease and desist" phone call from Amar, but shortly after that, they introduced the 801s
)I feel the need to stress the point that you want to use purpose designed drivers for a bass guitar (either guitar or PA speakers). A bass string has way more excursion than a hifi (linear) speaker can achieve. Only a speaker that compresses the peaks (generally identifiable by the accordion suspension) will survive.
Hi,
FWIW its not the suspension its the magnetic system that separates
music drivers and hifi drivers usually. Hifi drivers have linear Xmax
above which distortion increases dramatically, but is low below Xmax.
Typically known as long coil / short gap or short coil / long gap.
Music drivers on the other hand tend to have equal coil / gaps.
They produce a lot more lower order harmonic distortion than
hifi drivers below the hifi drivers Xmax but unlike hifi drivers
they don't produce high order harmonics suddenly at Xmax.
E.g a near equal coil 5" driver is :
Madisound Speaker Store
With a 12mm coil and 12.7 mm gap it is the sort of driver you
want. At $2 each for 30 or more what more could you want ?
A 7x4 sealed cabinet will go seriously loud with at least +/- 6mm
from each driver, more with more distortion. If you know your
bass guitar cabinets you know the 2nd harmonic of bottom E
matters far more than the 1st, see all commercial cabinets.
for $60 worth of drivers you'd have an outstanding bass cabinet.
rgds, sreten.
Attached is a typical sealed and "power handling" alignment
for 1 driver, 1/3 cuft per driver, very near right for a 5".
FWIW its not the suspension its the magnetic system that separates
music drivers and hifi drivers usually. Hifi drivers have linear Xmax
above which distortion increases dramatically, but is low below Xmax.
Typically known as long coil / short gap or short coil / long gap.
Music drivers on the other hand tend to have equal coil / gaps.
They produce a lot more lower order harmonic distortion than
hifi drivers below the hifi drivers Xmax but unlike hifi drivers
they don't produce high order harmonics suddenly at Xmax.
E.g a near equal coil 5" driver is :
Madisound Speaker Store
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With a 12mm coil and 12.7 mm gap it is the sort of driver you
want. At $2 each for 30 or more what more could you want ?
A 7x4 sealed cabinet will go seriously loud with at least +/- 6mm
from each driver, more with more distortion. If you know your
bass guitar cabinets you know the 2nd harmonic of bottom E
matters far more than the 1st, see all commercial cabinets.
for $60 worth of drivers you'd have an outstanding bass cabinet.
rgds, sreten.
Attached is a typical sealed and "power handling" alignment
for 1 driver, 1/3 cuft per driver, very near right for a 5".
Attachments
Last edited:
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