Visual Analyser
another one, which does work quite well: Visual Analyser
it even works under wine!
I really miss a native Linux application like that and/or like RMAA.
1audio said:
another one, which does work quite well: Visual Analyser
it even works under wine!
I really miss a native Linux application like that and/or like RMAA.
I have been thinking about a networked linux audio player with minimum EMI/RFI, with quality output. The standard PC technology produces a lot of electrical noise.
Something like this:
* a very low power solution, e.g. Asus WL500G Premium
* 5V linear power supply, no SMPS (I know there is a step-down SMPS onboard but there is probably no way around and I could not find a linux-capable board without the step-down SMPS)
* debian http://wpkg.org/Running_Debian_on_ASUS_WL-500G_deluxe
* 24-bit MPD + alsa, long latency to keep CPU load at minimum
Now the sound part. The router has one miniPCI slot. I could not find any miniPCI quality sound card. But there is supposed to be a simple miniPCI to PCI adapter http://www.costronic.com/Ev09mp.htm, no idea about price. I would prefer the model with the short flat cable as it allows placing the PCI card (e.g. Juli, Onky etc.) to a separate shielded compartment. It would even allow powering the card with a separate linear power supply, the required soldering should be rather straightforward. Timing of the PCI circuits of the card is not critical (as long as the communication works), the audio part is clocked by a separate crystal.
Another adapter is at http://www.getcatalyst.com/adapter_moreInfo_pci2mini3-3.html costs 125USD, rather expensive for a PCB with two connectors.
I am aware the price would approach dedicated audio solutions (Squeezebox Duet, etc), OTOH the quality could be substantially higher.
Something like this:
* a very low power solution, e.g. Asus WL500G Premium
* 5V linear power supply, no SMPS (I know there is a step-down SMPS onboard but there is probably no way around and I could not find a linux-capable board without the step-down SMPS)
* debian http://wpkg.org/Running_Debian_on_ASUS_WL-500G_deluxe
* 24-bit MPD + alsa, long latency to keep CPU load at minimum
Now the sound part. The router has one miniPCI slot. I could not find any miniPCI quality sound card. But there is supposed to be a simple miniPCI to PCI adapter http://www.costronic.com/Ev09mp.htm, no idea about price. I would prefer the model with the short flat cable as it allows placing the PCI card (e.g. Juli, Onky etc.) to a separate shielded compartment. It would even allow powering the card with a separate linear power supply, the required soldering should be rather straightforward. Timing of the PCI circuits of the card is not critical (as long as the communication works), the audio part is clocked by a separate crystal.
Another adapter is at http://www.getcatalyst.com/adapter_moreInfo_pci2mini3-3.html costs 125USD, rather expensive for a PCB with two connectors.
I am aware the price would approach dedicated audio solutions (Squeezebox Duet, etc), OTOH the quality could be substantially higher.
phofman said:
Perhaps you should think about something like the EMU USB 0404 instead of the PCI-Card.
It is much less hazzle and you're more flexible.
(We would need to fix the driver first for 24bit
)What I don't like about these mini-pcs are the limitations which come with them. 100MBIT/ethernet, limited ram, limited performance ( try to run brutefir on such a system), limited graphic performance ( no way to play Hi-Rez movies), asf.
However, it really depends what you want to use it for.
Cheers
Hi Ubuntu folks.
I just installed the latest 2.6.28-rc6-zen1 kernel with ZEN-gaming options, CFS scheduler, ALSA 1.0.18a.
I could even use the Ubuntu kernel .config.
To me it seems that the system became lightning fast. It's no longer the system slowing
down your productivity.
The great thing for Ubuntu Intrepid and ATI users.
With a very small kernel patch you get fglrx to work quite easily.
The Ubuntu dkms autoinstaller will actually install fglrx by itself, if the patch has been applied
to the kernel.
If somebody is interested in more details, let me know.
Cheers
I just installed the latest 2.6.28-rc6-zen1 kernel with ZEN-gaming options, CFS scheduler, ALSA 1.0.18a.
I could even use the Ubuntu kernel .config.
To me it seems that the system became lightning fast. It's no longer the system slowing
down your productivity.
The great thing for Ubuntu Intrepid and ATI users.
With a very small kernel patch you get fglrx to work quite easily.
The Ubuntu dkms autoinstaller will actually install fglrx by itself, if the patch has been applied
to the kernel.
If somebody is interested in more details, let me know.
Cheers
soundcheck said:Perhaps you should think about something like the EMU USB 0404 instead of the PCI-Card.
It is much less hazzle and you're more flexible.
(We would need to fix the driver first for 24bit
My personal reasons for avoiding USB (as of now):
* Incomplete drivers - with very little positive perspective for the future as USB cards with proprietary protocol are very secretive and generally poorly supported in alsa.
* USB isochronous itself puts much more load on CPU than PCI.
* Some quality PCI cards use well-documented chips and I can learn exactly what the card does. I do not like black boxes.
soundcheck said:
I understand your points very well. In this setup I am talking (really just talking
) about a networked audio player. Many people rightly complain about the level of noise within regular PCs. Some even claim that top quality audio playback from PC is impossible. Even with external PSU there is a powerful switched-mode converter onboard for the CPU. True, even low-power non-x86 boards carry a similar converter too, but with very low currents. I do not need CPU power for 192/24 PCI playback (unless upsampling/equalization is required).It was just an idea
ackcheng said:
Yes, you are right. If you don't watch out you smoke your PC! (E.g. on my
machine it is not shutting down properly)
The Ubuntu-rt-Kernel still has some problems. It seems that there are
just limited resources assigned to it.
I am actually talking about the Zen-kernel, which has always been much better
performing than the Ubuntu rt-kernel.
Perhaps somebody wants to try the Ubuntu-WIKI. ( see link in my signature)
I just updated it ( I am not the owner of it!).
Would be nice to see if the Wiki description somehow works, or if I missed something.
Advise: Please do not go for the automatic/script installation path offered in the Wiki!
Cheers
phofman:
John Swenson referred to this cutie at audio-asylum:
http://www.fit-pc.com/new/whats-new.html
USB audio:
The EMU 0404 USB card works asynchronous.
I also own the M-Audio Tranist.
I tried both feeding my TAS5706 FullDigiAmp via "Toslink-passthrough".
I know there is more to it than the USB connection. ( The Transit is fed by PC power)
However - comparing soundquality showed a huge difference between
both of them.
John Swenson referred to this cutie at audio-asylum:
http://www.fit-pc.com/new/whats-new.html
USB audio:
The EMU 0404 USB card works asynchronous.
I also own the M-Audio Tranist.
I tried both feeding my TAS5706 FullDigiAmp via "Toslink-passthrough".
I know there is more to it than the USB connection. ( The Transit is fed by PC power)
However - comparing soundquality showed a huge difference between
both of them.
From long-term monitoring alsa-dev mailinglist I got a feeling EMU 0404 USB is not supported completely in alsa. It is the secrecy part of my personal dislike of USB solutions.
SPDIF is just another no-feedback communication layer, very similar to USB adaptive.
I just feel like a quality PCI card in a separate shielded compartment communicating via PCI cable (asynchronous of the audio clock) with separate power supply (?) could be another step ahead.
SPDIF is just another no-feedback communication layer, very similar to USB adaptive.
I just feel like a quality PCI card in a separate shielded compartment communicating via PCI cable (asynchronous of the audio clock) with separate power supply (?) could be another step ahead.
That is exactly the reason I prefer well-documented PCI solutions where the driver supports all card functions (sometimes even more than original windows drivers).
I do not think the documentation James Courtier-Dutton received under NDA is complete and allows him to write support for all functions of the card. Plus, being the one under NDA, he must be careful about sharing information. It is not an enviable position.
I do not think the documentation James Courtier-Dutton received under NDA is complete and allows him to write support for all functions of the card. Plus, being the one under NDA, he must be careful about sharing information. It is not an enviable position.
You are right, if you do not know the specs PCI sucks just as USB does (e.g. Lynx cards)
On the other hand, there are many PCI cards with known specifications (at least provided under NDA and fully supported in alsa). I do not know of any quality USB card (e.g. either isochronous asynchronous or a proprietary asynchronous protocol) fully supported in alsa. If there are some, please enlighten me, maybe I just did not look carefully.
On the other hand, there are many PCI cards with known specifications (at least provided under NDA and fully supported in alsa). I do not know of any quality USB card (e.g. either isochronous asynchronous or a proprietary asynchronous protocol) fully supported in alsa. If there are some, please enlighten me, maybe I just did not look carefully.
Thought i would chime in on this discussion since i have quite a lot of experience with this.
Ive been running a linux powered audio server/player for around 4-5 years now.
In its current form, the audio path is:
mplayer (FLAC sources) -> jack -> brutefir (does high/mid xovers & sub xover) -> jack -> Envy24HT (modded with 3 optial spdif outputs) -> 3x spdif fibre -> DIY amp (3 x optical spdif inputs to 6ch bridged gainclone amps, same PCBs for minimal noise) -> speakers
I went with this setup due to my need for very sharp xovers req for my Seas magnesium drivers.
BruteFIR is an awesome piece of software.
It can do huge FFT's (=very high quality) with very little CPU usage and audio delay.
With this setup i can tune the XO points perfectly, apply levels/EQ's to each separate speaker driver output (and overall), do room compensation, etc without ever having to touch any analog circuitry.
Ive been running a linux powered audio server/player for around 4-5 years now.
In its current form, the audio path is:
mplayer (FLAC sources) -> jack -> brutefir (does high/mid xovers & sub xover) -> jack -> Envy24HT (modded with 3 optial spdif outputs) -> 3x spdif fibre -> DIY amp (3 x optical spdif inputs to 6ch bridged gainclone amps, same PCBs for minimal noise) -> speakers
I went with this setup due to my need for very sharp xovers req for my Seas magnesium drivers.
BruteFIR is an awesome piece of software.
It can do huge FFT's (=very high quality) with very little CPU usage and audio delay.
With this setup i can tune the XO points perfectly, apply levels/EQ's to each separate speaker driver output (and overall), do room compensation, etc without ever having to touch any analog circuitry.
phofman said:
Is he even still actively working on development of the Emu drivers? I'm using an 1820m, and the driver doesn't seem to have progressed at all from it's initial release a year ago. Still only supports 16 bit output, and still only supports duplex at 48kHz - 44.1 is broken for some reason that I haven't determined. I did manage to tweak the driver to get multichannel output-only working at 44.1, but after a year of no updates I'm pretty much ready to either go back to my M-Audio Delta cards with external dacs for the main channels, or else try netjack to a minimal windows install for playback over the emu.
dwk123 said:
Have you ever issued a TT via the devel-mailing-list about that?
Some thoughts from a Linux guy:
The Alsa guys really try their best. They get a reasonable number of cards supported. But somehow they don't get on top of it.
My impression is that they work extremely chaotic, documentation and internet presence ( at least from a user perspective) is a mess, outdated asf., trouble ticketing is done via mailing-list, feature developments seem to depend on the personal agenda per developer ( at least to a certain extent). I guess they are completely understaffed to be able to cope with
the demands.
I am really wondering who keeps an eye on that. Who is the guy in charge? Takashi?
And the pity is that IMO more and more the audio-driver support will be the key-successfactor for Linux. They need to be careful to mess it up before it's started.
10 years ago it was different than today. Today we see a fast growing community of people
willing to switch from Windows or even MAC.
I am wondering if sooner or later someone pulls the brake to get things under control.
Cheers
soundcheck said:
I do not consider binary OSS drivers with bugs and partial functionality to be a viable way. I have not heard a real success story from their users (e.g. does the Lynx OSS driver support external clock input?). And it is still PCI
A do not see any major problem with alsa, apart of the outdated web, TT not monitored regularly by major contributors to alsa, and the very complicated API for application developers. I hope for pulseaudio to eventually provide one.
BTW, the web runs on wiki and anyone can make fixes and updates.
Cards from Creative have always been a problem and will be for a foreseeable future. The manufacturer provides incomplete documentation and e.g. their newly released XFi GPL driver is a sad story, just as any other card of theirs. Hacking E-MU1820 is pretty difficult since the card is a technical mess.
Alsa itself poses no problem for regular users, they get mostly stuck with HDA stuff. The whole concept of HDA is great, unfortunately each device uses HDA in a different configuration of input/output. Support for one or several models is added every day. I do not think the models would work in windows without appropriate vendor drivers either.
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