@soundcheck
This is quite off-topic, however I think you have this kind of experience. I understand you found that higher CPU clock settings are better for the playback stream, despite the heat and EMI generated.
In this context what would you choose between a VIA c3/c7 1.5-1.8 Ghz CPU and an Intel core 2 mobile (from 1.8 and up)? The VIA cpu has a very low power consumption (an average of 8-10W or even better) while the Intel one, well go figure
. From my point of view VIA would be the obvious candidate. This would be used exclusively for audio playback, maybe brutefir crossover and dsp but not something to complex in terms of digital processing. The boards I am consisdering are mini-ITX. Nano-ITX would be nice (12*12cm) but they have only mini-PCI slots.
This is quite off-topic, however I think you have this kind of experience. I understand you found that higher CPU clock settings are better for the playback stream, despite the heat and EMI generated.
In this context what would you choose between a VIA c3/c7 1.5-1.8 Ghz CPU and an Intel core 2 mobile (from 1.8 and up)? The VIA cpu has a very low power consumption (an average of 8-10W or even better) while the Intel one, well go figure
. From my point of view VIA would be the obvious candidate. This would be used exclusively for audio playback, maybe brutefir crossover and dsp but not something to complex in terms of digital processing. The boards I am consisdering are mini-ITX. Nano-ITX would be nice (12*12cm) but they have only mini-PCI slots.
soundcheck said:
Thanks Klaus, I'll do that tomorrow.
BTW I spent the last three days reading about all of this, so I knew most of the rest of your post - but have no experience in compiling kernels and depend on packages. I get flustered whenever there's source code involved, and though I did download the 1.0.15 and I'm running 1.0.14, I was not able to figure how to get it going. Google notwithstanding - I can't get the language of the answers thrown at me.
There's no commandline references, which I would not have a problem using - at a conceptual level, I'm short when it comes to Linux. The problem is not the lack of trying, but the lack of competence at understanding the underlying structures and the fact that Windoze has made me lazy.
I'm taking instructions one at a time from whatever sources I can get - I didn't even know the three lines of code you've given, I'm only just starting to learn the language and I'm dealing with a pretty complex and newly supported piece of hardware. I'm sure experienced users can get it going immediately, and if I had a more standard piece of kit I guess I'd have been up and running right away.
I don't even know how to start Alsa mixer. I'm used to icons or a simple command. Or where to put files so that a make command can see them and unpack them automatically. Basic things like that.
SunRa said:@soundcheck
This is quite off-topic, however I think you have this kind of experience. I understand you found that higher CPU clock settings are better for the playback stream, despite the heat and EMI generated.
In this context what would you choose between a VIA c3/c7 1.5-1.8 Ghz CPU and an Intel core 2 mobile (from 1.8 and up)? The VIA cpu has a very low power consumption (an average of 8-10W or even better) while the Intel one, well go figure
Hi sunra.
I could have asked the same questions.
I really don't know. My Thinkpad T60p is a nice machine ( as soon as you have the fans under control
). I just tried to squeeze most out of it. I am also thinking what to do next in building a standalone audio-machine.
Things I know is that one should go for
a high-end motherboard the
best powersupply money can buy
the best RAM
a nice bios
a reliable and quiet sata hardisk
and all of this fanless.
You need to sneak around in the overclockers arena.
There are folks around talking about a complete different setup:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=23886
Still I prefer a big RAM and lots of processing power for 64 bit processing tasks.
Perhaps over here we can come to a conclusion what the best PC for a Linux audio setup would be.
Cheers
SunRa said:In this context what would you choose between a VIA c3/c7 1.5-1.8 Ghz CPU and an Intel core 2 mobile (from 1.8 and up)? The VIA cpu has a very low power consumption (an average of 8-10W or even better) while the Intel one, well go figure
I recently put together an extremely quiet PC for playback -- I won't say silent because it is audible when you put your ear to it, but it is as silent as I need as far as I am concerned.... below are the specs just in case you interested:
Motherboard: Asus M2NPV-VM (AM2) -- a Micro ATX board with integrated graphics (DSUB and DVI), etc., no onboard fans, no undervolting in the bios but it supports AMD Cool'n'Quiet and software undervolting.
CPU: AMD Sempron 3200+. Runs very cool, and I don;t even bother to undervolt. For the heatsink I went overkill: a Scythe Ninja RevB, big, doesn't even get warm. The stock fan is so quiet at a low setting on the controller (Zalman fanmate) I'm not even bothered to run it fanless, which I could do if I wanted.
PSU: a Tagan TG 380, which I recovered from a previous build. Very very quiet, but if buying again I'd seek out a Seasonic, which has one less fan and a good reputation at silentpcreview.com.
System hard drive: Western Digital Scorpio WD1200BEVS 120GB, 5,400 RPM notebook (2.5") drive. Suspended with elastic. Inaudible.
Data storage (lots of FLACs): Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS, 500GB, 7,200 RPM Hard Drive. Almost inaudible.
HDD cooling: Zalman ZM-2HC1 Heatpipe HDD Cooler. Seems to work well.
Optical drive: an LG DVD-R DL drive. Silent when it's not being used ;-) , noisy when a CD is in it. I only use it for installation, occasional ripping and backups, so I didn't care.
Memory: 2GB of Kingston valueRam.
Initially I was tempted to go for a VIA, but I'm glad I went for the extra power -- and the AMD chips are really cool running anyway. If you are putting together an audio PC, a visit to the silentpcreview.com forums is very useful.
Just to keep this all on topic, Ubuntu Studio installed well on the above system.
2.6.22 recovery mode
Hello all,
I must come back to an earlier message about installing kernel2.6.22-ck1 under Feisty 7.04. I got it working in standard graphical mode after several weeks and it runs SRC and XMMS this way (both use schedtool).
So recently I switched to recovery mode to use brutus. It starts up as usual, but when I run the scripts the only thing I get is errors like: "./setup: bash: ./setup: bin/bash^M: bad interpreter: no such file or directory".
As far as I know at least Tom and Soundcheck have (had) this kernel running, so are there any suggestions here on how I could try to proceed?
Kind regards,
Eddie
Hello all,
I must come back to an earlier message about installing kernel2.6.22-ck1 under Feisty 7.04. I got it working in standard graphical mode after several weeks and it runs SRC and XMMS this way (both use schedtool).
So recently I switched to recovery mode to use brutus. It starts up as usual, but when I run the scripts the only thing I get is errors like: "./setup: bash: ./setup: bin/bash^M: bad interpreter: no such file or directory".
As far as I know at least Tom and Soundcheck have (had) this kernel running, so are there any suggestions here on how I could try to proceed?
Kind regards,
Eddie
Hello soundcheck
I have a couple of questions:
1. Do you use a real-time upsampler? And if yes, did you had the chance to compare it with offline solutions? I know you mention it and I wonder how it has a benefic effect on sound when USB can't handle more than 44.1k?
2. How much space on the partition you use for Ubuntu? I know you removed much of the not needed packages. I'm asking because I'm thinking trying a CF card partition. The last time I've used Ubuntu, it was needing 4Gb.
3. What version do you use again? 7.10 or 6.06LTS?
Thanks!
I have a couple of questions:
1. Do you use a real-time upsampler? And if yes, did you had the chance to compare it with offline solutions? I know you mention it and I wonder how it has a benefic effect on sound when USB can't handle more than 44.1k?
2. How much space on the partition you use for Ubuntu? I know you removed much of the not needed packages. I'm asking because I'm thinking trying a CF card partition. The last time I've used Ubuntu, it was needing 4Gb.
3. What version do you use again? 7.10 or 6.06LTS?
Thanks!
SunRa said:
I did a comparision. I regard offlinesampling to 48kHz the best solution for my DDDAC setup. It seems that the system ( 12Mhz USB clock and 12Mhz DAC clock) can handle the 48kHz material better then the original 44.1 material.
I wrote a batch script which resamples all my 44.1 material
to 48khz using the Secret Rabbit Code in Best Sinc quality.
As always sample rate conversion can only be a compromise when it comes to sound quality. You're changing the original
never without facing some losses. However the benefits I have - e.g. much better soundstage and separation - I rate much higher
than the potential SRC losses on the other side.
Usb 2.0 has no sample rate limitiations related to stereo playback.
I manage easily 24/96 with the Benchmark Dac1.
SunRa said:
I still run 4GB. If you handle (kernel) sources and other stuff you should have some exra space available.
You might try Xubuntu or Fluxubuntu if you want to stay with Ubuntu. 1GB should work.
Of course there are other distributions, which much less space requirements.
SunRa said:
I use 7.10 packages with a 2.6.23-kamikaze4 kernel
Cheers
Klaus
Re: 2.6.22 recovery mode
Hi Eddie.
Since you installed a new Ubuntu Studio, you might encounter
several "inconsistencies/non-compatibilities" with libraries if
using an older kernel.
I am still testing the 2.6.23-kamikaze4.
Perhaps there is no need to stay with with 2.6.22.
The frequency issue I'have under control by now.
I still don't have the fan-control under control.
kamikaze5 is also under production and brings some tunable parameters back.
As Tom mentioned the 10khz option really makes a difference. You don't have this with the standard cfs kernel (Molnar).
So "kamikaze" is a must.
I think we're getting there.
BTW. brutus is now running with the Benchmark under 2.6.23-kamikaze4. I still have an issue with 24/96 (from Linn) and brutus. With aplay it works 24/96.
Cheers
\Klaus
EddieV said:
Hi Eddie.
Since you installed a new Ubuntu Studio, you might encounter
several "inconsistencies/non-compatibilities" with libraries if
using an older kernel.
I am still testing the 2.6.23-kamikaze4.
Perhaps there is no need to stay with with 2.6.22.
The frequency issue I'have under control by now.
I still don't have the fan-control under control.
kamikaze5 is also under production and brings some tunable parameters back.
As Tom mentioned the 10khz option really makes a difference. You don't have this with the standard cfs kernel (Molnar).
So "kamikaze" is a must.
I think we're getting there.
BTW. brutus is now running with the Benchmark under 2.6.23-kamikaze4. I still have an issue with 24/96 (from Linn) and brutus. With aplay it works 24/96.
Cheers
\Klaus
I just loaded the stock Ubuntu 7.10 on an old IBM A31 laptop to "play with".
Is there additional SW I need to load or "tweaking" of this one?
I want to try the laptop with an external USB DAC and streaming audio via the Ether port.
A long time ago(2 yrs) I ripped 200+ discs on a windows system using lossless compression. Was good enough for portable listening on my iPaq but no where near good enough for a home system.
Is there additional SW I need to load or "tweaking" of this one?
I want to try the laptop with an external USB DAC and streaming audio via the Ether port.
A long time ago(2 yrs) I ripped 200+ discs on a windows system using lossless compression. Was good enough for portable listening on my iPaq but no where near good enough for a home system.
Thats a good start!
Check out the diyaudio wiki linked to in this thread.
Else you can also test out this kernel:
apt-get update
apt-get install linux-rt
And you should get the ubuntu (studio) realtime kernel, I have not tried this kernel though, but should be an easy (but not optimal?) solution.
Again, read the wiki...
Good luck,
Cheers,
Tom
Check out the diyaudio wiki linked to in this thread.
Else you can also test out this kernel:
apt-get update
apt-get install linux-rt
And you should get the ubuntu (studio) realtime kernel, I have not tried this kernel though, but should be an easy (but not optimal?) solution.
Again, read the wiki...
Good luck,
Cheers,
Tom
Hello Troystg,
If you go to page 9 of this thread you will find a Wiki. A relatively easy way is to use XMMS. Out-of-the-box already better than Foobar under Windows. Second step would be to play your CD's from a RAM-disk and finally use the real-time option.
Did you use Flac files for lossless compression? With Foobar I could not distinguish wav's from Flac's but I do not know if XMMS plays Flac's.
The best option for high quality music is to install brutus and convert your CD's to 48 kHz. This is a time consuming effort, especially if you are new to Linux.
Kind regards,
Eddie
If you go to page 9 of this thread you will find a Wiki. A relatively easy way is to use XMMS. Out-of-the-box already better than Foobar under Windows. Second step would be to play your CD's from a RAM-disk and finally use the real-time option.
Did you use Flac files for lossless compression? With Foobar I could not distinguish wav's from Flac's but I do not know if XMMS plays Flac's.
The best option for high quality music is to install brutus and convert your CD's to 48 kHz. This is a time consuming effort, especially if you are new to Linux.
Kind regards,
Eddie
"Hello Troystg,
If you go to page 9 of this thread"
Ah, that's where the Wiki is located. I will be reading it and working on the pc more this weekend.
Again, this is just to "play and learn". I'm not quite ready to give up my transport and dac as my primary source just yet. It will happen, but for now I'm just looking for a server type addition that sounds good.
If you go to page 9 of this thread"
Ah, that's where the Wiki is located. I will be reading it and working on the pc more this weekend.
Again, this is just to "play and learn". I'm not quite ready to give up my transport and dac as my primary source just yet. It will happen, but for now I'm just looking for a server type addition that sounds good.
Hi folks.
It was quite a busy weekend. I spent at least 14h on Audio.
I'd like to report what happened:
I finished (for the time being ) my Linux setup:
Ubuntu 7.10, 2.6.23.1-kamikaze4 and a lot of other tweaks.
I also installed "Powertop", which got me some good hints
to improve the power consumption on the system. Highly recommended!
And finally updated brutus and brutefir.
(Still I didn't mange to run 24/96 material with brutus)
I finally got the feeling that it sounds better then ever.
I don't think that there is a need to step back to
2.6.22-ck1 anymore.
I further took the chance to compare the Benchmark DAC1 USB with my DDDAC 1543 USB fed by Brutus.
I tweaked the Benchmark DAC1 quite a bit.
- MainsFilter
- PowerCord ( Voodoo)
- 0db setting
- 3A silver fuses (!!!)
- Shakti-Onlines on the DAC-chip and Op-Amps
( Still far less then I tweaked my DDDAC )
It was a bit tricky to integrate the DAC into my fully integrated system. Playing around with a 1400$ product ( which needs to be sent back this week) in a DIY environment calls for a very careful treatment.
However it worked better then I expected.
So - what did I hear?
As a matter of fact -- I think the DAC1 is doing a great job. It shows slightly more details then my DDDAC and it seems to be partially more refined on the "edges of instrumental sounds".
However it lacks a bit of transient response and depth in the soundstage.
(These are known issues, which I herewith confirm. I guess these issues have been improved by e.g. Empirical Audio mods on the DAC1)
On complex pieces you hear the typical "mains" effect. I havn't heard a system driven by mains-power delivering the natural softness and relaxing atmosphere, blackness and seperation of a battery-driven DAC. You can listen to a battery driven DAC for hours. There are just less distortions in the air.
Further the upper-end is getting a bit annoying after a while on the DAC1. This might be caused by upsampling/filtering effects. (Perhaps - I am a bit unfair here. The DAC1 didn't have a chance to break-in. After 100h of operation these effects might disappear. )
Bottom Line:
The DAC1 is a real good device especially when looking at the pricetag (for a commercial product) and the features
it delivers. Especially what I like is that the volume control doesn't mess around with the sound a lot.
If tweaked a bit more, driven in balanced mode and a battery, I'd expect a real tough game for my DDDAC.
For the time being the DDDAC stays in the chain.
I guess a standard DDDAC ( and also other DACs out of the 154x NONOS family) would have a hard time to beat this device.
Please also consider that the DAC1 didn't run in balanced mode and I didn't pass by the volume control! ( This might have added
some +++ to the DAC1)
Test environment: Thinkpad T60P - Monster Ultimate USB - Voodoo IC Cables for the DAC1 - Bastanis Apollo driven by my Tripath 2020 based amp (battery driven) - DIY Dipole Subwoofer with 4* BD15 drivers from Bert Doppenberg fired by Icepower modules and a Behringer DCX 2496 as subwoofer crossover. All cables and wires are from Voodoo (solid core silver).
DDDAC1543 config: The USB interface is not the latest. The DAC-Towers are the latest. I run 24Chips, Tent Clock, BG non-polars, Northstar NSB 90 Battery, precision resistors, no outputcap, Riken resistors on the output, .....
So - Now it's time to update the Wiki.
Cheers
\Klaus
It was quite a busy weekend. I spent at least 14h on Audio.
I'd like to report what happened:
I finished (for the time being
) my Linux setup:Ubuntu 7.10, 2.6.23.1-kamikaze4 and a lot of other tweaks.
I also installed "Powertop", which got me some good hints
to improve the power consumption on the system. Highly recommended!
And finally updated brutus and brutefir.
(Still I didn't mange to run 24/96 material with brutus)
I finally got the feeling that it sounds better then ever.
I don't think that there is a need to step back to
2.6.22-ck1 anymore.
I further took the chance to compare the Benchmark DAC1 USB with my DDDAC 1543 USB fed by Brutus.
I tweaked the Benchmark DAC1 quite a bit.
- MainsFilter
- PowerCord ( Voodoo)
- 0db setting
- 3A silver fuses (!!!)
- Shakti-Onlines on the DAC-chip and Op-Amps
( Still far less then I tweaked my DDDAC
)It was a bit tricky to integrate the DAC into my fully integrated system. Playing around with a 1400$ product ( which needs to be sent back this week) in a DIY environment calls for a very careful treatment.
However it worked better then I expected.
So - what did I hear?
As a matter of fact -- I think the DAC1 is doing a great job. It shows slightly more details then my DDDAC and it seems to be partially more refined on the "edges of instrumental sounds".
However it lacks a bit of transient response and depth in the soundstage.
(These are known issues, which I herewith confirm. I guess these issues have been improved by e.g. Empirical Audio mods on the DAC1)
On complex pieces you hear the typical "mains" effect. I havn't heard a system driven by mains-power delivering the natural softness and relaxing atmosphere, blackness and seperation of a battery-driven DAC. You can listen to a battery driven DAC for hours. There are just less distortions in the air.
Further the upper-end is getting a bit annoying after a while on the DAC1. This might be caused by upsampling/filtering effects. (Perhaps - I am a bit unfair here. The DAC1 didn't have a chance to break-in. After 100h of operation these effects might disappear. )
Bottom Line:
The DAC1 is a real good device especially when looking at the pricetag (for a commercial product) and the features
it delivers. Especially what I like is that the volume control doesn't mess around with the sound a lot.
If tweaked a bit more, driven in balanced mode and a battery, I'd expect a real tough game for my DDDAC.
For the time being the DDDAC stays in the chain.
I guess a standard DDDAC ( and also other DACs out of the 154x NONOS family) would have a hard time to beat this device.
Please also consider that the DAC1 didn't run in balanced mode and I didn't pass by the volume control! ( This might have added
some +++ to the DAC1)
Test environment: Thinkpad T60P - Monster Ultimate USB - Voodoo IC Cables for the DAC1 - Bastanis Apollo driven by my Tripath 2020 based amp (battery driven) - DIY Dipole Subwoofer with 4* BD15 drivers from Bert Doppenberg fired by Icepower modules and a Behringer DCX 2496 as subwoofer crossover. All cables and wires are from Voodoo (solid core silver).
DDDAC1543 config: The USB interface is not the latest. The DAC-Towers are the latest. I run 24Chips, Tent Clock, BG non-polars, Northstar NSB 90 Battery, precision resistors, no outputcap, Riken resistors on the output, .....
So - Now it's time to update the Wiki.
Cheers
\Klaus
Kind of OT but someone might be interested:
Tom's hardware tested the new Intel Core 2 Quad (QX9650), the first on 45nm process. On short, the CPU is the fastest on the market, running at the same clock as the 65nm brother. The interesting part for us (actualy it's quite fabulous) is that this Quad Core chip needs only 3.79W in idle (Here) . And there are 4 cores in that!
This is the first CPU on 45nm released within this new family but for sure Core 2 Solo and Duo for mobile solutions will probably ocure. Beeing the fact that Intel has some Core 2 CPU's for embeded and mobile rated at a thermal package of 5.5W I asume that the 45nm versions will make VIA's C7 CPU's a hard time. In terms of performance there is no competition but the power consumption of Intel's CPU's is geting better and better.
Tom's hardware tested the new Intel Core 2 Quad (QX9650), the first on 45nm process. On short, the CPU is the fastest on the market, running at the same clock as the 65nm brother. The interesting part for us (actualy it's quite fabulous) is that this Quad Core chip needs only 3.79W in idle (Here) . And there are 4 cores in that!
This is the first CPU on 45nm released within this new family but for sure Core 2 Solo and Duo for mobile solutions will probably ocure. Beeing the fact that Intel has some Core 2 CPU's for embeded and mobile rated at a thermal package of 5.5W I asume that the 45nm versions will make VIA's C7 CPU's a hard time. In terms of performance there is no competition but the power consumption of Intel's CPU's is geting better and better.
Hi soundcheck,
Thanks for your constant work. I am runing Ubuntu but I confess laziness (lack of time) to make the upgrades you recommend on wiki. Apart the fact that I am new to it.
If you wanna play with DAC's you may consider -ecdesigns-' "ultimate NOS DACs", which come with a different aproach to USB: shift register reclocker on BCK. He explains better than me
Higher price, though, than Doede's excelent DAC, which I own also.
Sound description is on the thread.
Cheers,
M
Thanks for your constant work. I am runing Ubuntu but I confess laziness (lack of time) to make the upgrades you recommend on wiki. Apart the fact that I am new to it.
If you wanna play with DAC's you may consider -ecdesigns-' "ultimate NOS DACs", which come with a different aproach to USB: shift register reclocker on BCK. He explains better than me
Higher price, though, than Doede's excelent DAC, which I own also.
Sound description is on the thread.
Cheers,
M
soundcheck said:
Hiya Klaus,
Interested to hear somone else has done the comparison -- I did it a while back and came to the same conclusion as you: the DAC1 edges out the dddac on detail, but I found my dddac (mains powered) to be more listenable. Not by a knock out -- although I don't think I could live with the DAC1 long term, unless perhaps I put it through a nice tube preamp. Direct to my Tripath amp, however, the DAC1 was just brutally detailed.
I also spent some time offline resampling some of my FLAC files to 48khz with the secret rabbit code --
-- looks like I'll need to re-encode a lot of files... rgds stefan
ssmith said:
I also spent some time offline resampling some of my FLAC files to 48khz with the secret rabbit code --
It seems that you're the next one buying my story
- Be prepared- that's just the beginning! With a batch script you can have the conversion run over night.
In BestSinc mode a CD will take more than 30minutes on a fast machine. On a slow machine it can take up to an hour.
Ask Eddie - his new machine had some busy nights lately.
Cheers
Klaus
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