pinkmouse said:Not going to try the Audax HM100Z0s then Ant?
Still haven't used these yet. It can't be anything less than a cracking mid driver after all the positives I've heard but I don't think it would run down to 200hz very well. I do see its very efficient for a 4" driver though.
I'll give them a try sooner or later, just got to find the right project for them... and the time.
Any opinions on this shortlist of 12" bass drivers?
Volt RV3143
Beyma LX60
B&C 12TBX100
B&C 12TBX100
I also looked at the PHL 4530 and the Precision Devices 12" range but the baffle recess shape is an instant turn off so I think those will be given a miss.
Another interesting one is the P. Audio SD12. Never really heard much about these but the seem to tick most of boxes with triple shorting rings, FEA motor and spider/surround. Looks like plenty of thought went into them.
I'm ideally looking for one to cover the 35-200hz range with nice flat extension out past that point. This is virtually a given with pro-drivers since most are nicely extended, afterall a 12" in pro territory is often considered a mid driver.
Can't help but feel I've missed some of the really good ones though. Any other suggestions or thoughts?
Cheers
Ant
Volt RV3143
Beyma LX60
B&C 12TBX100
B&C 12TBX100
I also looked at the PHL 4530 and the Precision Devices 12" range but the baffle recess shape is an instant turn off so I think those will be given a miss.
Another interesting one is the P. Audio SD12. Never really heard much about these but the seem to tick most of boxes with triple shorting rings, FEA motor and spider/surround. Looks like plenty of thought went into them.
I'm ideally looking for one to cover the 35-200hz range with nice flat extension out past that point. This is virtually a given with pro-drivers since most are nicely extended, afterall a 12" in pro territory is often considered a mid driver.
Can't help but feel I've missed some of the really good ones though. Any other suggestions or thoughts?
Cheers
Ant
another choice
Hello,
Don't recall if you're going active or not, but if you are (which makes efficiency nearly a non-issue), I wouldn't discount the Aurasound NS12-513... which has an amazing motor (underhung neodymium), excellent cone, response well past your needs (above and below), and is at least $100 cheaper per driver than your choices. I would imagine it's perfectly competitive, even with the greater-bang-for-your-buck domain of professional drivers...
Also, what about 18Sound?
Driver:
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9359720.27106&pid=2096
PDF spec sheet:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/aurasound/NS12-513-4A.pdf
Just my two cents...
-tal
Hello,
Don't recall if you're going active or not, but if you are (which makes efficiency nearly a non-issue), I wouldn't discount the Aurasound NS12-513... which has an amazing motor (underhung neodymium), excellent cone, response well past your needs (above and below), and is at least $100 cheaper per driver than your choices. I would imagine it's perfectly competitive, even with the greater-bang-for-your-buck domain of professional drivers...
Also, what about 18Sound?
Driver:
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9359720.27106&pid=2096
PDF spec sheet:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/aurasound/NS12-513-4A.pdf
Just my two cents...
-tal
I think the problem with effektive PA 12" normally is high Fs and low Qt
Beyma also has a 12" studio bass 12B100-R, but its rather "old" classic
Montana use McCauley - but a bit ugly looking
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=115
or theese might be good
http://www.aer-loudspeakers.com/eng/bass-e.htm
Beyma also has a 12" studio bass 12B100-R, but its rather "old" classic
Montana use McCauley - but a bit ugly looking
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=115
or theese might be good
http://www.aer-loudspeakers.com/eng/bass-e.htm
Fostex has announced this new woofer .... but probably hard to get hold of ... but interesting
http://www.fostex.jp/release/FW405N.pdf
UPS .... a big one
http://www.fostex.jp/release/FW405N.pdf
UPS .... a big one
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/scanspeak-reference_eng.htm
The Maxima Scan Speak design looks like a simplier effort
The Maxima Scan Speak design looks like a simplier effort
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salas said:
I second that, stop talking and start building
. I would consider Audiotechnology instead of Accuton, but hey then you end up with a natural/ neutral sounding speaker instead of hifish. Also the Raal/ Accuton combi is not that great, both drivers aim at different design aspects.
The Accuton has a certain snap which sounds artificial to my ears. I could not get rid of it in my designs, while the Lumen White, Kharma and Avalon loudspeakers I heard, are stressing this aspect and calling it their strong points.
Part of the journey is to select drivers which results in more than the sum op their parts. It's your project, so I cannot stop you using Accuton.
Oh and before I forget if you like upfront/ forward voicing then Tony Gee can help you with the x-over (yes I heard a few of his designs). What I am trying to say is that if you share this presentation you should use Accuton, but then you have to use a different tweeter (ceramic, alu, berylium).
DISCLAIMER, yes I own a Raal 140 and also used every driver I described above (talking first hand experience here).
LaMa said:I second that, stop talking and start building
I would consider Audiotechnology instead of Accuton, but hey then you end up with a natural/ neutral sounding speaker instead of hifish. Also the Raal/ Accuton combi is not that great, both drivers aim at different design aspects.
The Accuton has a certain snap which sounds artificial to my ears. I could not get rid of it in my designs, while the Lumen White, Kharma and Avalon loudspeakers I heard, are stressing this aspect and calling it their strong points.
Oh and before I forget if you like upfront/ forward voicing then Tony Gee can help you with the x-over (yes I heard a few of his designs). What I am trying to say is that if you share this presentation you should use Accuton, but then you have to use a different tweeter (ceramic, alu, berylium).
DISCLAIMER, yes I own a Raal 140 and also used every driver I described above (talking first hand experience here). [/B]
Hi
Sounds like your enjoying the AudioTech. and RAAL combo.
You sure it was the C90-T6 mid you used? Its apparently quite a different driver to the usual lower sensitivity mids that have come from Accuton before. Its a low mms, and comparatively big BL underhung design.
Sorry you didn't have more luck with them anyway. Bit of an expensive mistake! Fingers crossed things work out a bit better for me.
Len, Tal and Tinitus.
Thankyou for the suggestions. The Aura's are tough to get hold of in Europe, don't think I could stomach the shipping for 4x12" drivers and then get hit for tax and import duty when they arrive here. They do look nice though.
Where are 18sound available from in the UK/Europe?
Thanks
Ant
Thankyou for the suggestions. The Aura's are tough to get hold of in Europe, don't think I could stomach the shipping for 4x12" drivers and then get hit for tax and import duty when they arrive here. They do look nice though.
Where are 18sound available from in the UK/Europe?
Thanks
Ant
ShinOBIWAN said:
Hi
Sounds like your enjoying the AudioTech. and RAAL combo.
You sure it was the C90-T6 mid you used? Its apparently quite a different driver to the usual lower sensitivity mids that have come from Accuton before. Its a low mms, and comparatively big BL underhung design.
Sorry you didn't have more luck with them anyway. Bit of an expensive mistake! Fingers crossed things work out a bit better for me.
T95, so not the new one. But it has the same family characteristic (heard the Avalon Isis).
18sound is good available in the Netherlands, also Eton is coming with new drivers in March (new 12").
LaMa said:
LaMa
After your brief post, I've been doing a little more investigation and the best part of £1300(price of Accutons) on four midrange drivers is not something to be taken lightly. I'm not sure I like the idea of emphasized edge on reproduction, I've heard it in some systems where its pushed as clarity but like you say it tends to be a little on bright side of neutral, although certainly you'd be forgiven for initially thinking it was more impressive.
Its tough to come by opinions for the RAAL and potential mating driver choices so when one does come along its best to take note, so I've been looking into your suggestions more closely.
I rang AudioTech. and had a chat with Per Skaaning about what he could do with my list of requirements. I mentioned that I was after something with around 92-93dB sensitivity, optimised for low distortion in the 200-2Khz range, low mms, a high BL and most of all, a natural midrange. I also mentioned that it would be crossed to a ribbon tweeter and we talked about the CSD behavior of ribbons and concluded that a high acceleration midrange was needed He's suggested a modified 15cm C-Quenze with the largest motor, kapton VC former, copper sleeve on the pole piece, SD system and a underhung coil. It would work out around 92dB sensitivity in the 200-2000hz range.
Why no flex unit? Well Per thought the C-Quenze was a little better in the mids with an improved cone geometry lending a smoother FR, he went on to say the flex units are more suited for bass and mid/bass units where their ability to tailor a greater number of aspects than the C-Quenze units are more useful and closed by saying the C-Quenze were already optimised for the best midrange so I didn't argue. It was refreshing that I wasn't immediately recommended *the* most expensive driver in the range, instead I got what was best for my requirements.
I'd only really rang up just to get idea's and opinions from a professional but by the end of the 30 minute conversation I was pretty much sold so at that point I ordered. At the end of all this, the price was 191Euro's each + 25% tax but I'll get a discount of 15% for the quantity order of 4. Which I didn't think was bad when the Accuton C90-T6 were over double that at 465Euros each from Clofis.
Overall they came across as a professional outfit that was as happy to take time out for a casual DIY'er as they were for anyone else and also make sure that any requirements you had were carefully looked into and met or if that wasn't possible then sensible alternatives were offered. Off the top of my head I can only think of ATC that offered similar service. On the other hand I rang Scanspeak(Tymphany) last year to find out about the D3004-6000 'aircirc' tweeters I'd had on order for 2 months and the person I spoke to gave the distinct impression that they were less interested in DIY'ers order for 'just' a single pair of drivers.
Overall the AudioTech units are expensive but I can't think of any other company that offers such sound advice and a thorough emphasis on creating custom drive units to get exactly what you want from them.
I look forward to them arriving in about a four weeks time.
Wow, if I did the calculation right your total should have come to about 820 Euro or $1050 after tax. Thats a boat load of money to spend on four midrange drivers, you can be sure. But I started to think about it this way. The Scan-Speak midranges you had originally looked at were about $220 a piece, so $880 for the set (plus tax if applicable). So for about $170 more you got consulting from a master in the field of loudspeaker driver design AND he's going to custom make you a set of drivers for your application. That, my friend, is what we call in America a "bargain" .
.
m0tion said:Wow, if I did the calculation right your total should have come to about 820 Euro or $1050 after tax. Thats a boat load of money to spend on four midrange drivers, you can be sure. But I started to think about it this way. The Scan-Speak midranges you had originally looked at were about $220 a piece, so $880 for the set (plus tax if applicable). So for about $170 more you got consulting from a master in the field of loudspeaker driver design AND he's going to custom make you a set of drivers for your application. That, my friend, is what we call in America a "bargain"
Yep I was happy at that too. It was 856Euros including postage, just to put that in perspective, the Accutons would have been 1900Euro's all inclusive, could have bought a quad of ATC supers for that money.
I've got to feel sorry for the folks in Denmark though, they get charged VAT at 25% on everything from food to loudspeaker drivers... ouch!
This site sells Eighteen Sound products out of the netherlands (so no worries about tax). RSL
Also lautsprechershop in germany now sell the Aura sound woofers but at 260 euros a pop they ain't exactly cheap!
Also lautsprechershop in germany now sell the Aura sound woofers but at 260 euros a pop they ain't exactly cheap!
ShinOBIWAN said:
I have the same experience, (quality is very good with the std series and custom work is also excellent). But lead time is > 4 weeks. But they always deliver, if you are ordering at the time they are doing the drivers for Sonus then you have to wait
.Also when I ordered my Raal tweeters, and told that I wanted to use AT, Raal told me he was very excited about the match between Audiotechnology & Raal.
Oh before I forget what are you using on the bass, because 18sound is good, but not great. I think you can do better (series consisticy isn't that great)
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