No, I cannot make that assumption. I've seen no data or research which would support that. There are very significant differences between the two w/r to alloying to tin.Hi,
You can safely assume that what is true for soldering gold is also true for silver.
Cheers,
John
Soldering gold wire virtually guarantees there will be embrittlement.Hi,
That particular aspect I do not know.
I do recall a reply from engineers at a factory in NJ stating that soldering silver wire or gold wire using eutectic solder (a la what's John Curl is using) should make no difference.
Probably not what you have in mind though,
Cheers,
If there is any wire left after the soldering process of course.
jn
Not exactly the same, 3% gold with tin lead is bad, a common lead free solder is SAC305 3% silver is a common lead free solder, anyway a paper on lead free solder and embrittlement:
http://www.dfrsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Gold-Embrittlement-in-Leadfree-Solder.pdf
http://www.dfrsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Gold-Embrittlement-in-Leadfree-Solder.pdf
The primary reason why I done my KT88 kit amplifier 100% in 4% silver solder was because a lower melting point solder will creep over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCj5krgpX9M
Leave a stick of solder inside of a glass jar and put it in the sun for 10 years and see what it turns into.
I'm not sure how stained glass gets on with being in the sun all of the time, maybe the solder wicks back onto the metal? Maybe there is so much metal there that it acts like a heatsink and therefore doesn't reach the required temperature to melt slightly.
I want to be able to turn on my amplifier in 50 years time and not have to open it up to redo all of the bad solder joints which have dried out and accumulated over the years, being attatched to the pins of a very hot running vacuum tube is just making the problem worse for solder joints.
I will still probably have to replace the two electrolytic capacitors but fortunatley the primary capacitors are PIO so won't ever need replacing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCj5krgpX9M
Leave a stick of solder inside of a glass jar and put it in the sun for 10 years and see what it turns into.
I'm not sure how stained glass gets on with being in the sun all of the time, maybe the solder wicks back onto the metal? Maybe there is so much metal there that it acts like a heatsink and therefore doesn't reach the required temperature to melt slightly.
I want to be able to turn on my amplifier in 50 years time and not have to open it up to redo all of the bad solder joints which have dried out and accumulated over the years, being attatched to the pins of a very hot running vacuum tube is just making the problem worse for solder joints.
I will still probably have to replace the two electrolytic capacitors but fortunatley the primary capacitors are PIO so won't ever need replacing.
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I've yet to encounter solid gold leads on any electronic component. Gold-plated, yes, and generally extremely thin plating at that. All my solder is 63/37 or 62/36/2 (silver). I expect leaching of the gold, but assume the leads are copper/steel/whatever.
I'm not sure what the pitch drop experiment has to do with solid solder, but anyway, though you make a valid point, do you have anything that really runs the solder joints that hot? Nearing the melting point, I mean.
Some food for thought: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/MWZHOU/Papers\Zhou 2002 - J E Packaging - Creep Model.pdf
Worked on many a high rel product that uses basic 63/37 eutectic solder, I don't think you'll find any problems regarding joints in a domestic situation (the 2% silver one performs just as well). Running something near the melting point of the solder is not a good idea, especially if you factor in the Tg rating of the base laminate....
Agreed. Back in the late 80's, I had to solder a 2 mil gold bonding wire to a solder coated pad, it doesn't work. No matter how tightly or quickly I worked the process, no success. Wire basically went away.
Also agreed (for the most part). Unfortunately, as I stated previously, the introduction of the silver into solder that is not close to eutectic tin lead aggravates the temperature required, so makes leaching greater for the hand solderer.
Silver is not put in to prevent or slow leaching of gold. In all cases, it is important to dilute the gold concentration by swamping it with the solder. At this time, under 3% is the recommendation.
I've been out of the business a while. I've never used silver or copper in a T/C or T/S machine.Bond wires can be aluminium, gold, silver or copper, but there not soldered as such more welded, there not very thick
Tin/silver is indeed more creep resistant than tin/lead.
However, stained glass has no severe problem with solder, as it does not wick at temperatures it sees in a window. The came is pure lead, and larger windows will require inserts or bars on one side to make it stiff. Sometimes, the maker will put a steel or iron insert into the H channel came, hidden from view, to stiffen the window. But it is a PITA to conform the metal to the glass, you have to consider the thickness when cutting the glass. When I was doing stained glass, I had enough problems just getting the glass cuts accurate enough that the came width could hide the gaps..I didn't have an abrasive grinder to clean or shape the glass to perfection. "Nearly perfect" glass cuts got tossed.
As well, all the copper plumbing was soldered using 50/50 lead/tin, even the hot water pipes before lead/tin was banned for potable water. I've never seen a good solder joint fail because of creep, not in the domestic potable, nor in the baseboard heating system (runs between 170F ad 190F).
I have however, fixed eutectic tin/lead joints on the gas burner control board due to long term cyclic fatigue. They mounted it above the boiler, and the power connector pins to pc board joints failed. Occasional reflowing fixes this easily, every 5 years or so pre-emptively.
jn
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FYI
http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/sszy003/sszy003.pdf
That covers copper, somewhere lurking in the back of my mind is some thoughts about silver for an RF module, but it may be just a delusional memory. My main interface with bonding has been for hybrid modules, where bare chips were used as getting them in ceramic packages is impossible for most devices these days. We have been trying to convince the powers that be at one place, that putting an SMD board inside a hybrid module may be an easier way forward (some devices are not available in bare dies), but it may take a few years of work to get any positive response and this is not for deep space stuff, just high altitude...
http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/sszy003/sszy003.pdf
That covers copper, somewhere lurking in the back of my mind is some thoughts about silver for an RF module, but it may be just a delusional memory. My main interface with bonding has been for hybrid modules, where bare chips were used as getting them in ceramic packages is impossible for most devices these days. We have been trying to convince the powers that be at one place, that putting an SMD board inside a hybrid module may be an easier way forward (some devices are not available in bare dies), but it may take a few years of work to get any positive response and this is not for deep space stuff, just high altitude...
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When the pitch drop experiment was created it was to prove a point. that even seemingly solid objects can creep over time.
If I had used a tin/lead solder in my tube amp I would expect to have to revisit it in 50 years time and redo it all over again. I'm hoping that I can avoid doing that and be happy enough turning the amplifier on after that length of time to hear beautiful sound coming out of it.
With obvious fatuiging components replaced like electrolytic caps and vacuum tubes and resistors. I would also need to check the transformers for insulation degradation.
But the joints would be FINE.
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From another Thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...otrodded-blue-dcb1-build-235.html#post4110505
Scorpion expects us to take his experience seriously.
He genuinely believes he can hear the effect of the solder type in a joint in the audio equipment.
the original is here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...otrodded-blue-dcb1-build-235.html#post4110505
Scorpion expects us to take his experience seriously.
He genuinely believes he can hear the effect of the solder type in a joint in the audio equipment.
Why? I have never, never, ever run into an old piece of electronic gear that showed any creep of solder joints.
I've been working on mid 1930s radios lately. No sign of solder creep in any of the four I've worked on.
I also have quite a few 1950s-1960s radios, and console stereo amplifiers and I've not seen any issues on any of them.
If you have to re-solder all of your connections after 50 years, you did something wrong the first time.
I also have quite a few 1950s-1960s radios, and console stereo amplifiers and I've not seen any issues on any of them.
If you have to re-solder all of your connections after 50 years, you did something wrong the first time.
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