Thanks
I borrowed that idea from Volvotreter, he does his horns like that. I was thinking of doing some lines around the edges too, give it a tron-ish look.
Oh no...
I just simulated my JBL GTO1214s in this enclosure. Pretty much flat to 20Hz, and good for >100Hz.
Might've found a nice Summer project. Currently its between this design and a couple more drivers in sealed cabinets, with lots of power and some eq.
What sort of weight are those things?
I'm a student, so if I do decide to build something this big, I'll have to move them each year.
You mentioned an EP 2000 amplifier (way back on page 10). Would I be right in thinking that's a Behringer Europower?
I've been thinking of getting a 2nd hand one of those for a while, as I'm finding even my most powerful amp (550w) a bit short.
I just simulated my JBL GTO1214s in this enclosure. Pretty much flat to 20Hz, and good for >100Hz.
Might've found a nice Summer project. Currently its between this design and a couple more drivers in sealed cabinets, with lots of power and some eq.
What sort of weight are those things?
I'm a student, so if I do decide to build something this big, I'll have to move them each year.
You mentioned an EP 2000 amplifier (way back on page 10). Would I be right in thinking that's a Behringer Europower?
I've been thinking of getting a 2nd hand one of those for a while, as I'm finding even my most powerful amp (550w) a bit short.
Yeah, I currently have an EP2000, but I think these drivers can take a little more, I've never, ever heard them bottom even with 1812 cannon blasts that pop the clip indicators.
I'll weigh one in a sec.
Edit: They're about 120 lbs each.
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Nice! The bright color puts them over the top.
I'm still working on the cutsheet for tb46's fold. My wife preferred it to BP1's fold as it will take up less floor space. Would have the cutsheet finished but I can't seem to focus lately.
I did model the Epic 12's in the new design, looks really good. I may end up buying a pair after I buy a new amp and MIC2200 (the HPF and two bands of parametric equalization). Right now I am leaning towards a QSC PL340 or Crest CA9 (the Mael-X can take 1400 W/4 ohms in the TTWQT design).
I'm still working on the cutsheet for tb46's fold. My wife preferred it to BP1's fold as it will take up less floor space. Would have the cutsheet finished but I can't seem to focus lately.
I did model the Epic 12's in the new design, looks really good. I may end up buying a pair after I buy a new amp and MIC2200 (the HPF and two bands of parametric equalization). Right now I am leaning towards a QSC PL340 or Crest CA9 (the Mael-X can take 1400 W/4 ohms in the TTWQT design).
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Yeah, I love the color, I think I might do some accent pieces on my mains the same way, but I have to be careful, the mains are close to the screen and I think brash colors might be distracting.As far as EQ / HPF goes, with the Epic 12, depending on how much power you throw at them, I'm really hesitating to even hook the MiniDSP up and re-engage my HPF, I'm into the clip indicators with the EP2000 @ 4 ohms and I've never had any bottoming or nasty sounds (except for clipping if I let it clip hard). I'm not sure if it has anything to do with shorting rings or just the way the driver is designed.
I'm not sure about the Eminence driver, as I've never owned or tried one.
One thing I wanted to run past everyone here, but I've really been trying to find a position up front for the subs, but of all the designs I've had, I always end up with them at the back of the room. They seem way more even back there, but it's easy to tell where they are and I've been trying to get away from that sensation...which seems a lot like in a car, you can always tell the sub is in the trunk
For fun today, I tried turning the subs and the listening position 90 degrees, so that the listening position was along a long wall and the speakers were along the other long wall. The bass seems much, much better like this.
I'm wondering, is it because of the cement walls?
I've been wrestling with this issue in this room for a while, I wonder if anyone has an opinion on it.
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I always mess with it a bit whenever I move anything or change any subs around, there's always a setting where it just clicks..the involuntary foot tap starts going and that's where I keep it.
I really think my issue is the way the walls are, there's gotta be some kind of phase issue with one wall being drywall and studs and the others being cement, I keep thinking that one wall is moving just enough to absorb certain frequencies, or even bouncing them off the cement wall on the other side of the drywall (the far wall of the room that's over there) and causing some cancellation.
It's bad enough that at the front of the room, with the speakers on the short wall, there's almost no point to having the sub amp powered on, unless there's frequencies in the song that are below ~30 cycles or so. In the position along the short wall, there's almost no middle bass "ribcage rattle", no visceral impact. But man, when I shift the room so that the subs are aimed into where the walls are concrete behind the drywall, it's a whole, whole different animal.
I think I'm just going to end up flipping the room around that way, it seems like there's less issues to overcome when it's set like that.
The maggies are fairly low efficiency from what I can recall, I'd imagine you'd be running with sub amp volume knobs somewhere around 10 o'clock
I guess "not good" for HT isn't what I was trying to convey, just that I was used to having a pair of tapped horns sitting about 3 feet away from either side of the couch, so some effects that are normally very visceral weren't quite so.
It's much better with the orientation switched, but it's going to take a good bit of work to move the screen and the projector around before I can try it with a BD.
I'll try to at least get the speakers and furniture moved tomorrow morning so I can get some REW-ing done.
Hi GM,
Post #199: "...Some there have found it to be a bit anemic, so are swapping out drivers..."
I lost track of that thread, but I think that the general approach in the SPUD and the DTS-10 makes for a great TH if one has the room. For some of the talk in that thread I have absolutely no reference, like adding multiple DTS-10s to get enough SPL? Naturally, one can always "upsize" the box like dual 15" or even 18". Luckily, I don't have the room for any of that, I'm still debating to build a drum riser for my grandkids around the SPUD concept.
Regards,
Post #199: "...Some there have found it to be a bit anemic, so are swapping out drivers..."
I lost track of that thread, but I think that the general approach in the SPUD and the DTS-10 makes for a great TH if one has the room. For some of the talk in that thread I have absolutely no reference, like adding multiple DTS-10s to get enough SPL?
Naturally, one can always "upsize" the box like dual 15" or even 18". Luckily, I don't have the room for any of that, I'm still debating to build a drum riser for my grandkids around the SPUD concept.Regards,
In the first pic both subs boost the "long" standing wave (with wavelength 2 times the length of the long wall). They also cancel the standing wave between the oposing long walls (wavelength 2 times the length of the short wall), because by the time the sound of one sub reaches the other, the last one is out of phase.
In the second pic the "short" standing wave between the oposing long walls is boosted, but the "long" one is canceled.
( The same thing happens with all the multiples of the frequencies corresponding to the above wavelengths. But half-frequencies of the boosted ones, are cancelled ).
Depending on the dimensions of your room, you can calculate which frequency is boosted and which one is attenuated in each case, and the explanation will hopefully pop up.
I say "hopefully", because in reality there is much, much, much more into this simplistic story.
Fortunately, coping only with the basic set of the above mentioned frequencies, a reasonable first setup can be achieved in the majority of cases.
If someone wants more, then lots of reading wait for him around the corner
Good
You can always get the calculator out, & punch in the dimensions/wavelength equations etc. But even then you need tinker in order to optimise things
Could you put the subs 1/3 or half way down the room at either side, & dial in the right delay ? Or how about putting the subs both together somewhere ?
Good
You can always get the calculator out, & punch in the dimensions/wavelength equations etc. But even then you need tinker in order to optimise things
Could you put the subs 1/3 or half way down the room at either side, & dial in the right delay ? Or how about putting the subs both together somewhere ?
I considered laying them down flat in the center with the bottoms touching, but I didn't try that yet.
@toulou Yeah, that makes sense. I could calculate some nulls and peaks in the two positions, but should I expect them to be very wide?
For example: This song. With the subs positioned on the short wall, the bass guitar (all of it) is pretty much completely gone, along with the kick drum. I'm not sure a few nulls would cover enough of the spectrum to make it sound almost as if I'd just switched off the amplifier. The very lowest note he plays on the bass is clear and tight, but everything else sounds like someone has their hand on the woofer cone.
Flipped 90 degrees though, every note pops through with a nice ribcage jiggle, like it should.
Edit: One more example. This Song. With the subs on the short wall aimed long, I get the over-mic'd bass drum that flexes the walls, but the bass guitar is gone, and I mean just about completely.
It's vexing because the room "looks" better the long way..and I've heard many people say that's the best way to arrange things, but I've tried pretty much every conceivable arrangement...subs firmly in the corners, pulled out 2 inches, pulled out 6 inches, pulled out to 25% of the length of the room, angled inward, turned 90 so they face, up on blocks, etc etc..and it all seems to do the same thing.
I'm going to measure it today and see if I can qualify this with something real.
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Alright, here we go. With the subs placed along the long wall, there's a bit of a null in the 40's, but I can tame the peaks a little around the edges and fix it up a bit with some EQ.
But take a look at the train wreck of what happens with them placed on the short wall firing longways.
But take a look at the train wreck of what happens with them placed on the short wall firing longways.
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Location, location, location
Back in Jan. when I was testing the first OD_ML_TL cabinet that I built, with a 6 ohm Lab 12 in it, I took a 15 Hz to 300 Hz sweep but found a big hole at ~ 34 HZ.
Then I moved the cabinet about 3 or 4 ft. further into the room (8 ft. from the wall instead of 4 ft.) and I got quite different results.
This was with the exact same setup.
I will admit that I was surprised by the apparent F3 of the second sweep which seemed to go down to maybe 16 Hz.
.
I have a question. If I set the limiter on my Crown XTI-1002 to say 29.0 Volts, would that represent 200 Watts (29^2/4.19) or is the amp limiting to 29 V peak?
I seem to not get all that close to X-Max with 29 V limiter settings which does not agree with HRSP at all.
.
Anyway, here are 2 sweeps with the only change being the position in the room.
No smoothing, no Eq
Dave
Back in Jan. when I was testing the first OD_ML_TL cabinet that I built, with a 6 ohm Lab 12 in it, I took a 15 Hz to 300 Hz sweep but found a big hole at ~ 34 HZ.
Then I moved the cabinet about 3 or 4 ft. further into the room (8 ft. from the wall instead of 4 ft.) and I got quite different results.
This was with the exact same setup.
I will admit that I was surprised by the apparent F3 of the second sweep which seemed to go down to maybe 16 Hz.
.
I have a question. If I set the limiter on my Crown XTI-1002 to say 29.0 Volts, would that represent 200 Watts (29^2/4.19) or is the amp limiting to 29 V peak?
I seem to not get all that close to X-Max with 29 V limiter settings which does not agree with HRSP at all.
.
Anyway, here are 2 sweeps with the only change being the position in the room.
No smoothing, no Eq
Dave
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