Ever read 'Tom Brown's Schooldays' dirk? It documents the origins of a system of schooling which set the standards in a nation without whose opposition nazism would have overwhelmed, if not the world, then Europe and Asia. It was pretty horrific by today's standards, but there's a lot of true wisdom embedded in language. 'Spare the rod and spoil the child.'
You may be well read in the history of education, but you quite obviously have little real experience of people, and most particularly children.
Children can not be permitted to exercise their 'free will'. Otherwise they will dominate their parents. This is a reversal of the natural order of things and can only have a disastrous outcome.
I've seen families where the parents didn't have the backbone to exercise discipline. At the least social workers moved in, in the worst cases it was the police.
Ever hear the expression 'tough love'? It didn't come from nowhere.
You remind me of the guy I knew who abandoned his dog in the woods so that it could be a 'free spirit.' That's not the way, the tao. That's not love. It's just a failure to take responsibility. Which is exactly the opposite of the example we want to set our kids.
Last edited:
How do you know its not possible?
It does rather seem to me that morality-free education is akin to world peace - possible, but there's no real demand for it.
I remember in junior school a BBC programme for schools (the name escapes me) which painted a very rosy picture of the future: nuclear power would mean that electricity would be so cheap that it was no longer metered, crime detection would be so efficient that we would no longer need locks on our doors, we would have personal jet-packs for travel or flying cars. Note that this was not presented as science fiction, but serious futurology. Complete nonsense of course, but some people still seem to hold fond hopes.PlasticIsGood said:
It may just about be possible to teach maths and science in a value-free way, although you would still have to decide on a concept of truth. Other subjects necessarily involve assumptions and values. You can't discuss a historical event or a book or play without some assumptions about values, except perhaps merely at the level of noting what happened. Each society has values, and educates its children accordingly. We may argue about whether the values are right/true/appropriate (and argue about which is the right criterion) but it is inescapable that education will generally follow them. The exception is when education is used subversively by people who have different values from the society as a whole, for good or bad motives (another debating point!). I don't want to stray too far into politics.abraxalito said:
I don't believe world peace is possible, precisely because there is no demand for it. To say why there is no demand would take me into another area the mods would not approve of, for DIYaudio.
Last edited:
But the assumption can be a non-moral assumption. For example, Austrian economics starts from the axiom (which you might wish to call an assumption) that 'value exists only in the human mind'. The rest of the Austrian economic edifice is founded on that one simple axiom.
You seem to have gone off track - your original claim was about the impossibility of morality-free education, but you're not addressing that, rather focussing on assumption-free education (which I think probably is impossible).
So the (hypothetical) appearance of demand would suddenly make it possible? I rather suspect that the word 'impossible' has divergent meanings between our two idiolects
Can there be any non-moral assumptions?abraxalito said:
That assumes either that only human minds exist, or only their values matter. A moral assumption?
Sorry, I was not very clear there. What I meant was that the human condition which causes there not to be universal demand for it is also the human condition which stops it happening.
For me, yes without any doubt. Perhaps not for you though?
Looks like a fail - please show reasoning. I did say 'value' not 'values' btw.
Looks to me like an assumption that there is just one ('the human condition') for which I can't see a justification.
Thanks to the OP (Gajanan Phadte) - thanks for posting this.
I leave it to others to discuss endlessly about their theories of what, how, needs or doesn't need to be done in education. This teacher is so profoundly human and generous that i didn't even bother the crucifix in the background that usually makes me jump.
Great find.
I leave it to others to discuss endlessly about their theories of what, how, needs or doesn't need to be done in education. This teacher is so profoundly human and generous that i didn't even bother the crucifix in the background that usually makes me jump.
Great find.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.