Re: Re: Let me say it with a picture...
Everyone's missing the point, once a cable causes more than a dB of frequeny response deviation it is accected that a trained listener can hear it so there is no point in arguing over it.
If I wanted to repeat this seriously I would try it in an anechoic chamber with a calibrated mic or dummy head and no people in the vicinity.
Joshua - I think we are discussing two different things, you don't care if actual scientific measurements correlate to what you hear, that's fine. It's not the same as there is no measurement known to explain the difference and we have to discover a new thread in quantum mechanics to explain it.
Andre Visser said:
Everyone's missing the point, once a cable causes more than a dB of frequeny response deviation it is accected that a trained listener can hear it so there is no point in arguing over it.
If I wanted to repeat this seriously I would try it in an anechoic chamber with a calibrated mic or dummy head and no people in the vicinity.
Joshua - I think we are discussing two different things, you don't care if actual scientific measurements correlate to what you hear, that's fine. It's not the same as there is no measurement known to explain the difference and we have to discover a new thread in quantum mechanics to explain it.
alansawyer said:
This post show the heart of the problem. Learning, analytical 'minded' and 'proofs' don't always arrive in textbook manner.
If you apply brain power -or rather- 'teach yourself a way around this quandary'..or even..'allow yourself to reach fully into the situation' and then stew on it..or even.. do not dismiss the little bits hanging about, and take them as a group and analyze them..over time..ie build a case that works in that particular direction..... then you might begin to get a clue.
The real point here is that 'observed but not understood' exists.
Every day, every breath, it exists in your world. You don't have to take more than one second to speak on something where the logical description of a given thing defies us.
Why should this be any different?
John and I and others have noted an observed phenomena.
Why it should exist is not explained. Some of us know why those differences exist, some do not. But they are noted.
The problem in learning something new being a mishandled and stopped situation lies in thinking that anything observed is automatically false data if it is not scientifically substantiated.
This way lies madness. The madness of structured world with no changes in knowledge. The dark ages.
What I'm saying is: Such a tack or direction in learning, understanding, and explanations ..in that direction lies madness and the dark ages.
Some of you need to rethink exactly how you 'learn' things.
New things aren't in textbooks. They start with human observation.
All of them.
PMA, it is because they are working from a premature conclusion that wires can't have sonic differences between each other, rather than resistance, inductance, or capacitance. They are not trying to explain WHY differences exist, but postulate that differences DON'T exist and therefore insist that OUR experience is: "delusion, hallucination, group hallucination, mass hallucination, mere coincidence, sheer coincidence, or sloppy research." Have I missed anything?
syn08 said:
No, others cannot use my results, for 2 main reasons:
1. The way a certain cable sounds in a system is dependent on the entire system, including the room acoustics and the listening position.
2. Different people have different sound preferences.
However, others may well select cables for their systems in a way similar to the one I use.
Re: Re: Re: Let me say it with a picture...
If the influence of the cable was only a linear attenuation of the audio signal, it would be easy to increase the volume and it should sound the same, this is not the case.
I believe your test were done with 30AWG cable, not something that one will normally use on a good system, I fail to see the reasoning behind the test.
scott wurcer said:
If the influence of the cable was only a linear attenuation of the audio signal, it would be easy to increase the volume and it should sound the same, this is not the case.
I believe your test were done with 30AWG cable, not something that one will normally use on a good system, I fail to see the reasoning behind the test.
Joshua_G said:
Am I wrong, or do we have an agreement here?
I don't think anybody here is stuffing "scientifically certified" cables down your throat. You can use whatever pleases your ears, but make sure when telling about that it's your own selection and other may be dissapointed.
Engineers will select their cables based on scientific criteria and tell "according to my measurements and DBT testing there is/is not a difference between these two cables".
Everything is fine, until some
snake oil merchands or anti-intellectual ignorants start talking pseudo science (like - no pun intended - "under transient load, the micro-stability and level of dielectric constant in a given material will move toward zero" ) to justify $1000/ft. for cryogenically treated silver monocrystal cable. That's where my fuses are getting short.
john curl said:
Possibly. I don't know if there are other physical differences between cables that can cause audible differences.
But there's one thing we can't get around: IF there is a genuine, repeatable, statistically reliable audible difference between cables, it can ONLY be because the electrical signal at the speaker differs. And that can in principle be measured. Always.
Jan Didden
No, you are right, we do have an agreement here.
May be.
I never recommended anyone else any piece of audio gear.
When asked, I recommend selecting by ones' own listening, on ones' own system.
I know some engineers who select cables and other pieces of audio gear the same way I do, or in a very similar way. Not all engineers think along the same lines. I know some engineers who acknowledge that listening tests, if done properly, are serving them better than any measurements.
Originally posted by syn08
Everything is fine, until some
Some of my cables are fairly expansive, but they were selected neither by price nor by any promotional rap.
Re: Re: Re: Let me say it with a picture...
Getting a bit flustered?
The fact is you didn't make a valid point. You set out to demonstrate how the change in the resistance of the cable you used changed the output of the speaker. Sure, it looks that way on the plot you have shown, but how accurate is this result? Not very, because:
You need more.
scott wurcer said:
Getting a bit flustered?
The fact is you didn't make a valid point. You set out to demonstrate how the change in the resistance of the cable you used changed the output of the speaker. Sure, it looks that way on the plot you have shown, but how accurate is this result? Not very, because:
Your controls for the test were not stringent enough, therefore your results are completely inconclusive.scott wurcer said:
scott wurcer said:
You need more.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.