Hi, Elso
I just read your current thread. And I just don't share your own advice...
In my experience, DC offset correction loops just do things right IF you are not TOO demanding on them... Some careful match of parts has to be run first. Don't you use dual Jfets ? U440 to be precise (but also 2N5911/12, J109/K389, and some others ?)... Yes, you use them, as an evidence... As most of us on the forum...
On your experience about capacitors as coupling elements... They can be really bad, depending on the structure and chemical substances in it... Would you use a ceramic capacitor in a audio path feedback loop ? Or even a tantalum ? Of course not... Now, where did you get the information they were that BAD in audio use ? From former John Curl's own work... Years ahead his collaboration with Dick Marsh on a new paper in Audio Amateur... Your ears just confirmed that, and it is a good point to confirm theories with facts...
And yes, I try to get the Blowtorch secret (you already know where I am now....). The main point is that the Line amplifier concept is rather ordinary, but IMO the PSUs are NOT, as we discussed it... But as I said previously, I am still a student, not trying to "clone" as you said, but still attempting to make my own audio life better and picking some best ideas available around... Did you not mod Bongoman stuff ? As an evidence you tweaked it a lot...
I am now much more interested in a GOOD harmonics placement rather than an absolute best performance with tons of zeroes behind the 0..... Whenyou just consider that the best loudspeakers or headphones are 2 to 5 % distortion, just addind even 0.1 % more is just academic view, no ?
Just my 2 cents... ,And now you know why I am targeting at the PSU much more than the Line amplifier ! Do you really think that this thread is ways too present on the Forum and now pollutes all other interesting possible threads . Perhaps...
All the best,
Jbaudiophile
I just read your current thread. And I just don't share your own advice...
In my experience, DC offset correction loops just do things right IF you are not TOO demanding on them... Some careful match of parts has to be run first. Don't you use dual Jfets ? U440 to be precise (but also 2N5911/12, J109/K389, and some others ?)... Yes, you use them, as an evidence... As most of us on the forum...
On your experience about capacitors as coupling elements... They can be really bad, depending on the structure and chemical substances in it... Would you use a ceramic capacitor in a audio path feedback loop ? Or even a tantalum ? Of course not... Now, where did you get the information they were that BAD in audio use ? From former John Curl's own work... Years ahead his collaboration with Dick Marsh on a new paper in Audio Amateur... Your ears just confirmed that, and it is a good point to confirm theories with facts...
And yes, I try to get the Blowtorch secret (you already know where I am now....). The main point is that the Line amplifier concept is rather ordinary, but IMO the PSUs are NOT, as we discussed it... But as I said previously, I am still a student, not trying to "clone" as you said, but still attempting to make my own audio life better and picking some best ideas available around... Did you not mod Bongoman stuff ? As an evidence you tweaked it a lot...
I am now much more interested in a GOOD harmonics placement rather than an absolute best performance with tons of zeroes behind the 0..... Whenyou just consider that the best loudspeakers or headphones are 2 to 5 % distortion, just addind even 0.1 % more is just academic view, no ?
Just my 2 cents... ,And now you know why I am targeting at the PSU much more than the Line amplifier ! Do you really think that this thread is ways too present on the Forum and now pollutes all other interesting possible threads . Perhaps...
All the best,
Jbaudiophile
We all know that we could endlessly discuss the subject of hearing, but where will it take us? What I assume to hear and what in fact is part of MY reality at that given moment, is completely different for somebody else. In these absolutely different hearing-realities, the same amp will sound like heaven to one and like an early transistor-radio to the other. So, the search for the holy grail, is always within the limitations or boundaries of what we hope to find and in the end this is confirmed by what we hear.
Attempting to build or clone a circuit one has never heard is driven by the expectation we personally have about its sonic quality.
Are circuits build up till now (and that goes for the Blowtorch too), capable of exact sound reproduction? My answer is no! There are other ways of making even a CD-player, Amp, Speakers, etc. sound way better than it already does and confront you with a striking presence which surpasses your best experience. How? That's beyond the scope and nature of this forum and as Elso says it overrules every theory presented here up to this date!
I'll say it a bit different than Elso: No matter how brilliant the theory is, the reality is in the listening perception and experience.
Attempting to build or clone a circuit one has never heard is driven by the expectation we personally have about its sonic quality.
Are circuits build up till now (and that goes for the Blowtorch too), capable of exact sound reproduction? My answer is no! There are other ways of making even a CD-player, Amp, Speakers, etc. sound way better than it already does and confront you with a striking presence which surpasses your best experience. How? That's beyond the scope and nature of this forum and as Elso says it overrules every theory presented here up to this date!
I'll say it a bit different than Elso: No matter how brilliant the theory is, the reality is in the listening perception and experience.
Unraveling the Blow-Torch
Hi, Jbaudiophile, sorry if we are talking at cross-purposes!
The real information about caps I got from trying them! Listening!
For example in RIAA correction I tried polystyrene, silver-mica and polyprops.
As coupling caps I tried various types polyprop, mylar, PIO, those green Nichicon Muse BP recommended by the Bongoman, and various boutique parts....
% Harmonious distortion does not interest me, cannot measure it and it seems the distribution of the harmonics is more important... I don't have the money for that expensive equipment.
And how do you effect harmonic placement?
I am a very experimental guy; do not believe anything, even not from the highest Audio Guru. I feel you will never unravel the Blow-Torch secret. But go on if you like!
No problem for me to help you my friend where ever I can.
Hi, Jbaudiophile, sorry if we are talking at cross-purposes!
The real information about caps I got from trying them! Listening!
For example in RIAA correction I tried polystyrene, silver-mica and polyprops.
As coupling caps I tried various types polyprop, mylar, PIO, those green Nichicon Muse BP recommended by the Bongoman, and various boutique parts....
% Harmonious distortion does not interest me, cannot measure it and it seems the distribution of the harmonics is more important... I don't have the money for that expensive equipment.
And how do you effect harmonic placement?
I am a very experimental guy; do not believe anything, even not from the highest Audio Guru. I feel you will never unravel the Blow-Torch secret. But go on if you like!
No problem for me to help you my friend where ever I can.
Hi, Courage and Elso... (are all Netherlands native shere ? No... lacks Janneman, Jaco Vermeulen,...)
The point is NOT here, and I won't enter a discussion about my own representation of what an amplifier would sound like ! You have both your own advice about it, or YOU won't be here discussing the point here too, eh ?.
And perhaps that Elso tried lots of capacitors... Me too... All are NOT unharmful to sound quality, and EVEN not audio praised ones CAN have their own qualities... I still use NPO (COG) caps, and they are OK for my use...
But the overall topology is MORE important to my ears than just the sum of componenents on the board.... And yes, Elso, the harmonic placement is a matter of the schematics you use... I am targetting it most. Parts sound qualities just don't help a lot here, except to avoid to introduce other sonic nasties in the audio path !
So, my own guess is that I am still a student in the audio world.
John Curl said that the Blowtorch was just an EXPERIMENT at first, and even if he ran a small series of them, I suspect that the overall sound was good to him. So to me... But still to hear of it.
Anyway, my expectations are my own private, and I won't certainly discuss any point on any forum, sorry for, guys! That's why when I have a private message to any, I wouldn't have it put on a PUBLIC forum... Eh, Elso ?!!!... More when your own seeing is wrong... It won't be cutting anything on my own progress, but I certainly stop discussing it.... Will just stay aside and see where you will lead this thread, guys...
And when I ever see Curl's professional curse, and also his theory works, I am very interested that he just accepts to share his knowledge and findings with us... No more no less !! Elso knows that I was targeting Mark Levinson stuff... Yes... But ONLY the John Curl era... That all, folks !
Jbaudiophile
The point is NOT here, and I won't enter a discussion about my own representation of what an amplifier would sound like ! You have both your own advice about it, or YOU won't be here discussing the point here too, eh ?.
And perhaps that Elso tried lots of capacitors... Me too... All are NOT unharmful to sound quality, and EVEN not audio praised ones CAN have their own qualities... I still use NPO (COG) caps, and they are OK for my use...
But the overall topology is MORE important to my ears than just the sum of componenents on the board.... And yes, Elso, the harmonic placement is a matter of the schematics you use... I am targetting it most. Parts sound qualities just don't help a lot here, except to avoid to introduce other sonic nasties in the audio path !
So, my own guess is that I am still a student in the audio world.
John Curl said that the Blowtorch was just an EXPERIMENT at first, and even if he ran a small series of them, I suspect that the overall sound was good to him. So to me... But still to hear of it.
Anyway, my expectations are my own private, and I won't certainly discuss any point on any forum, sorry for, guys! That's why when I have a private message to any, I wouldn't have it put on a PUBLIC forum... Eh, Elso ?!!!... More when your own seeing is wrong... It won't be cutting anything on my own progress, but I certainly stop discussing it.... Will just stay aside and see where you will lead this thread, guys...
And when I ever see Curl's professional curse, and also his theory works, I am very interested that he just accepts to share his knowledge and findings with us... No more no less !! Elso knows that I was targeting Mark Levinson stuff... Yes... But ONLY the John Curl era... That all, folks !
Jbaudiophile
Upupa,
I wasn't replying to one of your questions, but only to Elso and Courage on a special point...
And definitely, I don't discuss works from any of all other guys you named... I simply have tested too little from their own work to discuss the point (but the Nelso Pass A40 !!!). Did you test them all ?
And Elso, lacks short term memories ? LOL !
Regards
Jbaudiophile
I wasn't replying to one of your questions, but only to Elso and Courage on a special point...
And definitely, I don't discuss works from any of all other guys you named... I simply have tested too little from their own work to discuss the point (but the Nelso Pass A40 !!!). Did you test them all ?
And Elso, lacks short term memories ? LOL !
Regards
Jbaudiophile
I had build in my life many amps, several Borbelly types, one Cordell's and many my own cocstructions...many amps I had listen, many tested ( for enjoy and for recenses for magazine )... All around amps I have quite clear in my head I don't like wizzards ( certainly JC isn't ), but many well known names are...
I don't like wizzards ( certainly JC isn't ), but many well known names are...
Abakadabra
sorry, your post is abakadabra to me........
apart from the typos.
Upupa Epops said:I had build in my life many amps, several Borbelly types, one Cordell's and many my own cocstructions...many amps I had listen, many tested ( for enjoy and for recenses for magazine )... All around amps I have quite clear in my head
sorry, your post is abakadabra to me........
apart from the typos.
I usually run fets around 15V, or about 1/2 their voltage rating. I do this because they become more linear at high frequencies with MORE voltage, but then they will start to leak gate current, if too much voltage is applied. Look at the detailed data sheets of specific fets and the change of Cgs and Cdg with voltage. You will find the 'rate of change' to level off after several volts. Very low voltage operation gives you high value, non-linear capacitance from inside the fets. 
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