John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

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The sound of every piece of audio gear I have heard so far can be changed, and to my ear and that of others pleasantly improved.
Every piece of mystery audio gear that is.
I understand that this concept is way out of your experience/comfort zone and you are not alone,
I don't remember stating discomfort or disbelief. Somehow, someone's curiosity on possible sound improvement is way out of their experience/comfort zone to you. :rolleyes:
however there are others who have experienced the effects I speak of and are fully comfortable with the results.
I see them everyday online.
 
The only time I saw affects is with measuring reflected ripple (VSWR) from the source Z mismatch and from load Z mismatch.

I have several network analyzers.... How would I do a test with them to see directional cable characteristics?

Not a hard one. Carefully cal the network analyzer for S11 and S22. Connect a cable between the test ports. See if there is any difference between the two traces.

This won't let you measure really tiny deviations in the structural return loss, but it certainly would allow you to see if there's a significant difference on that cable. Note that with a relatively short cable you'll need to look out to at least several hundred MHz because of the wavelengths involved.

Plan B is to use a TDR.

Again, I can't say with any certainty that this cable effect would have any effect on audio circuitry and how it performs.

However, don't rely on anything I might say:

Variations of characteristic impedance along short coaxial cables - IET Journals & Magazine

https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/E206COMPTEST_METHOD.pdf

Structural Return Loss Measurement of Coaxial Cable
 
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The only time I saw affects is with measuring reflected ripple (VSWR) from the source Z mismatch and from load Z mismatch.

I have several network analyzers.... How would I do a test with them to see directional cable characteristics?


THx-RNMarsh



OR are you referring to NEXT and FEXT? Near-End cross Talk and Far-End cross Talk??

I can see this making a difference esp on long cable runs.



-RNM
 
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"RF guy" here...

You do routinely find this problem. Keeping the center conductor of a coaxial cable pretty much exactly in the center of the shield along the entire length of the cable is pretty hard. There's manufacturing tolerances and the effects of mechanical stress during use.

So, while the impedance might be 50.00000 Ohms at one point of the cable, two feet further down it might be 50.7 Ohms. This tolerance is even specified by the manufacturer.

This is why real measurement cables cost (almost) as much as the crazy audio interconnect cables. They are built to tight tolerances and are really rugged. You still have to toss them out after a while if you're making very close measurements due to the effect of repeated flexing, not to mention connector wear.

Now, I cannot tell you that these same effects make a difference with audio. I plain don't know.

(BTW, it's possible to measure IMD caused by connectors at RF. Another subject.)

Sort of what I was alluding to in my earlier post. But, these effects are IMV not measurable at Audio so are not hearable.

(I've just donned my fire suit. :D )
 
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Not a hard one. Carefully cal the network analyzer for S11 and S22. Connect a cable between the test ports. See if there is any difference between the two traces.

Plan B is to use a TDR.


... same effect I mentioned. I have a TDR also.

showing mismatch.... not directionality.

NEXT and FEXT could be sgnificantly different.


-RNM
 
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Sort of what I was alluding to in my earlier post. But, these effects are IMV not measurable at Audio so are not hearable.

(I've just donned my fire suit. :D )
Well... I guess that depends on how whatever the impedance presented to the output stage affects that stage's performance.

As an extreme example, which nobody here would ever encounter, if the output stage is marginally stable the reactance connected to the output terminals could have a big effect on the stage performance.

Or, imagine that some external RF source gets into the amplifier through one of the many ports and causes distortion or is even rectified. That wouldn't show up in the usual audio band measurements. The cable characteristics certainly would have an affect on this, too.
 

Yes I like it, as a different view at the same issue that I addressed as well. However, unfortunately, the own experience is always untransferrable.
Connectors and shield connection is the main source of added shield interference voltage. Not the cable itself. However, audio designers do not care, in 99%. Probably they have no idea and do not understand the issue. If it was not true, the evident design faults would not be a rule of thumb in audio design.
 
Back on track, are we evenharmonics? It doesn't matter much what Max or anyone else uses, you will not be able to match what Max does to them, because it is confidential what he does. Apparently he would like to develop a service from improving electronics. Very commendable in my opinion. My colleague, Jack Bybee does much the same thing. It has been very useful to me for the last 25 years.
 
Well... I guess that depends on how whatever the impedance presented to the output stage affects that stage's performance.

As an extreme example, which nobody here would ever encounter, if the output stage is marginally stable the reactance connected to the output terminals could have a big effect on the stage performance.

Or, imagine that some external RF source gets into the amplifier through one of the many ports and causes distortion or is even rectified. That wouldn't show up in the usual audio band measurements. The cable characteristics certainly would have an affect on this, too.

The nice thing is that a measurement of this edge case lights up very obviously and doesn't require any special explanations.
 
The sound of every piece of audio gear I have heard so far can be changed, and to my ear and that of others pleasantly improved.
I understand that this concept is way out of your experience/comfort zone and you are not alone, however there are others who have experienced the effects I speak of and are fully comfortable with the results.
In fact you hear the conduction noise behaviours I speak of every time you listen to reproduced audio, just that these noise behaviours are chaotic.....when the system noise is set to a stationary order it subjectively effectively 'disappears' and this is part of what makes exceptional audio as opposed to the run of the mill mass produced 'hi-fi' that most of the world has to suffer.
When I post test results and achieve explanation of course the reaction will be 'it's obvious' or the like, I look forward to that day.


Dan.

No, this concept is beond logic and shows how far down the rabbit hole youve gone. Same special sauce fixes everything audio but has no effect on other electronics and the only proof is your opinion, and dont tell us "everyone" else hears the improvement because im sure the old man in the back row didn't. And for all we know no one did but that dosnt sell your BS.
 
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Back on track, are we evenharmonics? It doesn't matter much what Max or anyone else uses,
Back on track but one more on Max before we do... :rofl:
you will not be able to match what Max does to them, because it is confidential what he does.
Of course not, as long as the model and brand of them are kept secret.
Apparently he would like to develop a service from improving electronics. Very commendable in my opinion. My colleague, Jack Bybee does much the same thing. It has been very useful to me for the last 25 years.
Right, apparently I can develop improvement in electronics beyond audible level and market it. It would be commendable for my wallet too. :idea:
 
Chris, there is a difference between jfets and bipolars, but I invented both complementary differential input stages, separated by a 4-5 year interval. So, in 1968, I used bipolars for my amp input stage, and later I used complementary jfets for the GD, and ultimately for the Levinson JC-2 line stage. See schematic.
Of course, the self biasing nature of the depletion mode jfets gave some advantages, but the bipolar and mos fet devices will also work in a complementary differential input stage.
 

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Duh, DC and high source impedance.

Who said DC and high source impedance? A coil of wire has an open circuit voltage noise and short circuit current noise both very small and difficult to measure. Consider for a minute the profound consequences of conductor asymmetry and its own noise. Is this idea all your own or do you have some references, it took a while last time to pry them out.
 
Who said DC and high source impedance? A coil of wire has an open circuit voltage noise and short circuit current noise both very small and difficult to measure. Consider for a minute the profound consequences of conductor asymmetry and its own noise. Is this idea all your own or do you have some references, it took a while last time to pry them out.

You treat thermal drift as AC?

JN,

The test signal return path does not change.
 

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For probably 99.99% of applications any directionality will not matter.
Audio is different because we are sensing time/depth information and this gets altered according to cable direction.

Dan.

So; radar, mobile telephony (64 QAM for 50 mbps on 5Ghz), LHC... they all don't have time as a challenge... sure.

... hmm

//
 
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