Same could be said for my EMU1212M sound card which does quite a bit better than the Marantz, measurement wise. I don't see any pro's using 1212M's for recording or monitoring and if you put it up against something like a Prism or Benchmark, you can easily hear why.
T
I have 10,000 tunes on CD. many no longer available. I dont want to spend the rest of my life copying them all. So, i dont mind a CD player from time to time for listening.
BUT ... i do transfer many of them... like 5% so far to a Sony HAP-Z1. and to do the transfer from CD to the Sony storage/server.... I use a OWC, Mercury PRO. very well built and perfect for file transfer. No analog out.
The OPPO just doesnt sound good enough and it looks like a lot of work to make it sound best it can.
THx-RNMarsh
BUT ... i do transfer many of them... like 5% so far to a Sony HAP-Z1. and to do the transfer from CD to the Sony storage/server.... I use a OWC, Mercury PRO. very well built and perfect for file transfer. No analog out.
The OPPO just doesnt sound good enough and it looks like a lot of work to make it sound best it can.
THx-RNMarsh
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But -isn´t there always a "but"
- unless you got exactly the same machine that was tested by Stereophile you can´t be sure either and even if you have the same unit you wouldn´t know if it is still in the same condition.In any round robin attempt you have to find a way to ensure (by measurements) that at each stop the unit is in a good condition, it is a crucial point.
And, as we have discussed before, a crucial point is the "sychronization" on describing vocabulary; the EBU PEQS files might be a help, as it containes sound samples with different recording aberrations, and so, even while the absolute sound rating might still be different on different systems, the relative variation should be similar.
EBU Technology & Innovation - Parameters for the Subjective Evaluation of the Quality of Sound - Music
EBU Technology & Innovation - User's Guide for the EBU PEQS CD
The publication of the sensory lab billshurv linked some time ago could be an additional guide to the selection of describing attributes to agree on.
At the first step it imo doesn´t matter, as the hypothesis (taken from the posts in this thread) would be that no difference could be heard if the measurements are at the same (or nearly same) level - means below the known thresholds of hearing - as in the Marantz and for example the Benchmark DAC3.
If there really exists evidence for the contrary, the next step would be testing hypothesis(es) for possible reasons.
It's a use case thing for me. I don't want to have to have a laptop powered up to play music. And when I get home from work and there is a CD in the post then I want to listen NOW. But I fully understand it's just me being difficult
Easily bettered in which way? Serious question.My point was that the EMU actually measures very well, in fact many people have used them for that purpose alone. When it comes to sound they are easily bettered. Yes, the software / compatibility is a PITA
Jakob: Agree with you, but plenty of people who can do those measurements on here. And yes the language is an issue for anything other than a joint listening session. But would still be interesting to try and do.
Thanks for the link. What I'm talkin' bout is strictly non contact with the wine, picture a thin o-ring around the top of the stem/bowl connection. Some kind of field effect, strange but true.
Dan.
Try public transport at peak times and you will be astounded at the number of people of all ages wearing headphones of some sort.
Different makes and models of earbuds abound (wired/wireless) with quite a proportion using full size over ear headphones, connected to a smart phone some using additional headphone amplifiers.
Many of these commuter listeners who are not in the minority.are evidently into seeking good sound judging by the price points of many aftermarket headphones.
These types of listeners very readily recognise and prefer better sound according to results of impromptu experiments with fellow passengers.
Modern phone sound is pretty darn good, the headphones are the let down hence the demand and range of headphones available.
Dan.
On the corollary, it does say that given the option, people are seeking out some auditory bliss.
I shall remain optimistic enough that if people were given the option to not have loudness wars processing, they'd take it. Might require some education to highlight what's going on, but still
I shall remain optimistic enough that if people were given the option to not have loudness wars processing, they'd take it. Might require some education to highlight what's going on, but still
Well it's either 'people like music' or 'People like to block out the world when commuting'.
I agree that this does give a basis to work from, except that portable phones are generally designed with leakage to stop people walking out on moving vehicles they cannot hear. This gives them a limited dynamic range without hearing damage and therefore compressed to death is actually better for them without smart audio processing in the phone.
I agree that this does give a basis to work from, except that portable phones are generally designed with leakage to stop people walking out on moving vehicles they cannot hear. This gives them a limited dynamic range without hearing damage and therefore compressed to death is actually better for them without smart audio processing in the phone.
I doubt that higher DR would affect safety, as folks are still going to pick a preferred median volume and high DR events are still quite transient. You've got quite an uphill battle to say that higher DR markedly affects perceptual masking (again for a given nominal volume).
Loudness wars is result of pushing the nominal value closer to the peak, and really only works when you're the one making sure your product is louder than everyone else so as to jump out. When everyone is compressed into oblivion, then you lose your advantage once again. And so restarts the cycle
Loudness wars is result of pushing the nominal value closer to the peak, and really only works when you're the one making sure your product is louder than everyone else so as to jump out. When everyone is compressed into oblivion, then you lose your advantage once again. And so restarts the cycle
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Yes. My guess is that very few people choose their phone on the basis of actual sound quality. Some expensive and very popular headphones are known to have huge swings in frequency response. Most people these days choose things based on what is 'cool', not on what is actually good.billshurv said:
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