At least the phase of a cannon is unambiguous.
Yeah, especially speakers are excellent in phase precision
Someone made a rigorous test on phase audibility?
Hi Ed
High freq losses as well as amplitude dispersion is something that humidity in air is involved with.
But you’ve mentioned time units, so the issue with frequency dispersion remains open.
Next time you visit Seattle, try to keep notes on controlled tests.
(the issue will resurface again)George
Seems to me the initial transient of a kick drum is related to beater velocity. Sometimes beater is allowed to bounce off the batter head, and sometimes it is pushed into the head and held until just before the next hit.
Initial deflection rate of kick drum beater head depends on drummer foot velocity. If allowed to rebound after that, it should resonate at the frequency of the system when excited that way. Often the resonant head is tuned to a different tension and natural frequency than the beater head. When excited from striking beater head, system resonates at some function of resonant head tuning, shell resonance, and resonant or logo head resonant tuning. Pitch can be different depending on which head is struck, or where on a given head is struck. It's a complex system with many possible modes, but normally the beater attached to the foot pedal is pretty repeatable in that it excites one mode pretty consistently.
Initial deflection rate of kick drum beater head depends on drummer foot velocity. If allowed to rebound after that, it should resonate at the frequency of the system when excited that way. Often the resonant head is tuned to a different tension and natural frequency than the beater head. When excited from striking beater head, system resonates at some function of resonant head tuning, shell resonance, and resonant or logo head resonant tuning. Pitch can be different depending on which head is struck, or where on a given head is struck. It's a complex system with many possible modes, but normally the beater attached to the foot pedal is pretty repeatable in that it excites one mode pretty consistently.
A kick drum is going to sound like it sounds depending on how it is mic'ed, and how the sound system reproduces the signal coming out of the mic. Sometimes a mic is placed in the resonant head hole where it receives a big puff of air. Presumably if standing in front of a large speaker stack accurate reproduction might blow your hair back. Probably best to wear earplugs if trying that though.
I hope the M2s would sound good. Might want to double check with some NS-10s to see how that sounds. Probably sound somewhat different on different systems and different listening environments. In some of those cases, one's hair might get slightly blown back or sucked in. Maybe it would sound different to some people depending on which one. Some people say it does, maybe it's true in some cases. That's all.
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My NS-10s now have stereo subs that go a little below 40 Hz. Similar for CLA NS-10s. I like to check both ways, subs on or off. Haven't tried to see if absolute phase matters to me though. I happen to have a kick drum too, and it sounds very different depending if I am on the audience side or the drummer side.
Hi Mark,
Do you have the original NS-10, or the NS-10M variant?
I used to do warranty service for Yamaha and have replaced countless woofers for recording studios over the years. It wasn't a horrible speaker and did it's job as a near field monitor fairly well. It was a good standard.
A subwoofer system was needed for sure! I bet that rolling off the bass in these really cleaned up the sound quality!
-Chris
Do you have the original NS-10, or the NS-10M variant?
I used to do warranty service for Yamaha and have replaced countless woofers for recording studios over the years. It wasn't a horrible speaker and did it's job as a near field monitor fairly well. It was a good standard.
A subwoofer system was needed for sure! I bet that rolling off the bass in these really cleaned up the sound quality!
-Chris
Speakers never sound exactly like the real thing, and what mics pick up is different from what human ears hear. Closest humans can get is put a finger in one ear and put the other ear where the mic is. Already very different. The whole experience of accurate reproduction is mythical if one wants to be picky about it. My only concern is, does it sound good on most systems compared the best other people can do? If I can come close to that, great. Its hard enough as is.
Hi Ed
High freq losses as well as amplitude dispersion is something that humidity in air is involved with.
But you’ve mentioned time units, so the issue with frequency dispersion remains open.
Next time you visit Seattle, try to keep notes on controlled tests.
George
George.
To be sure we are on the same page in acoustics dispersion has to do with the high frequencies travel a bit faster than the low frequencies. It is often misused to mean coverage angle.
ES
In an anechoic environment you are correct. However, in all real life listening situations, the perceived sound is a combination of direct and reflected sound. And this combination is strongly dependant on listening location. It is a combination between the direct sound and the delayed reflection of it.
The way two sines combine when one of the two is time shifted, is that both amplitude and phase are impacted. In other words, there is no such a thing as correct phase in any listening room, at any location. Much the same as the flatness of the original FR of the speaker falls apart at a listening position in a room. (One couldn't happen without the other btw, they are one and the same thing but just different metrics.)
My take on it: The brains ability to process all these phase and intensity shifts out is truly remarkable. But everything comes at a price, and the price in this case is that we have great difficulty hearing phase shift in sound, or absolute phase for that matter. Simple primate-like brain can't filter out phase susceptibility and be sensitive to it at the same time.
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One of these days, i would like to have you for a dinner with my young friend Tintin. in the "chateau de Moulinsard".
We will have fun, talking about those people that believe they live in a perfect world where everything is under the control of the pure science and don't believe in what they ear. Reason why they cannot listen to music without a blindfold and the presence of 2 doctors and 1 bailiff. ;-)
It is very simple. Listen to a well recorded Jazz tune or whatever with good drums, and change what you call "the absolute" phase of *your system*, hoping you have a way to make the switch instant. Did-you find a difference in the sound or not. You do not ? Don't worry any more about... until you will change something in your system or room treatment.
BTW: Our ears with the help of our brain seems to be pretty good to separate direct sound from reflections. Try to record your system with a microphone situated where you sit.
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