John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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Oh No...

I see that you are on a cycling forum also eh Steve. :p
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I LOVE Strads. Been to Cremona too! Heard some of the best.


I can never get any. The local shop has always sold out of my size.:D

Had for many years a Martin Nightingale c1900 - a very small guitar which had more voice than any other that I have heard. It would carry through a large room full of babble whilst totally unamplified. Amazing instrument. Got stolen 20 years ago.:mad:
 
Now, for the price of phono cartridges. In the beginning, let us say 1974, the $100 figure was close to the mark. Well, what happened?
Well, one cartridge importer decided to raise the prices, and get away with it by having a nice presentation box and packaging. So the new, improved models got more and more expensive, by 1988, perhaps $500 for a mid-line MC phono cartridge. Yes, you could pay, even then, much, much more. Ortofon got into it and just about outdid everybody in packaging. Wow! But what about the sound? There were incremental improvements, but there was a lot of 'fat' in there that was just excess profit. Who made the money? The manufacturer's? NO, the importers, who often sold a phono cartridge under their own name. They would just pick them out of a sample box and then design a distinctive cartridge shell. Some people, who were poorer than me, when I first met them, became millionaires by this process. And so it goes.
Now, what about today? Is it still the same? Somewhat different? Yes, to both.(more later)

Today we can get very well made cartridges. But there are only a few brands bringing good quality.
But who makes what.
There are not so many companies able to make good stylus and polish.
Generator coil assemblies can be bought on the market.
Many manufacturers are not able to drill holes into the cantilevers, so they glue in front of it, thu there is more mass, the glue ist not as stiff as the cantilevers and there is a chance that the stylus fly away with a scratch in the record.
Looking under the microscope, you will see, many expensive cartridges are not well assembled, wrong stylus angles, wrong VTA and so on.
Someguys remove the pole shoes from the magnets and pray it sounds better thus, but in truth the need very heavy coils to generate enough level or must make very short cantilevers, thus they create more distorsions.
They make *special shapes styli*, also creating different kind of distorsions, called better sound. ....
Some idiots removed the bor wire, whitch is holding the cantilever, and the say their cartridge tracks better. No way , it has just more space to move, more distorsions and works only with high damped superduperultralightwightblibgblingfuzzy tonearms.

They use *secret space material*, sounding better...
marketing Hype ist still a problem.


Also there is a problem to get good test records.
 
The Lions Head Is Cooler Than Strads...

Below is same as my mother's violin - different sound to more modern violins, but beautifully sweet and harmonically pleasant, and surprisingly LOUD.
I agree that recordings don't do justice to the live sound of this level of instrument.
Smorgasbord, a snapps or two and my mum was the life of many dinner parties in my youth.
It is a pity that the MP3 generation will never get to enjoy the thrill of real live music.

Jacob Stainer (c. 1617-1683) was the earliest and best known Austrian luthier.
Stainer was born in Absam, Austria. His designs influenced instrument construction in Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, parts of Italy, and several other countries.
He may have been associated with the luthiers of Cremona, Italy, in particular the Amati family. His instruments were the most sought-after throughout Europe until the late 18th century, when changing performance conditions led musicians to seek a different sound.
The instruments of Antonio Stradivari are flatter and broader, and they produce a more powerful sound. This became the sound preferred by musicians as orchestras in large concert halls gradually replaced baroque chamber ensembles in intimate settings.
Stainer’s violins are comparatively rare today and few of his violas, cellos, and basses are known to exist. They are highly sought after by musicians who perform early music on period instruments.
350px-Stainer.jpg
 
I LOVE Strads. Been to Cremona too! Heard some of the best.

In relative terms, Strads have a reputation for a smaller sweeter sound than the more powerful Guarnaris. The Strads therefore are usually better choices for solo performances in recital halls and chamber music while the Guarnaris the better choice for large concertos where they have to play with and sometimes compete to be heard against an entire symphony orchestra. Kind of like the comparison between Chateau Laffitte Rothchild and Chateau Latour :) The Strads may also be better choices for making recordings where they are close miked.

An excellent violin maker in our area we used tried to make a copy of the reknowned 1741 ex Kochanski whose sale I linked to earlier. We played it and listened to it. The A, D, and E strings were loud enough but rather raw. This could come around in time with playing. We've noticed remarkable changes in the tone of violins that are new or have been in disuse for a long time, changes that are obvious sometimes in as little as half an hour of playing. But the G string seemed to us a hopeless cause, weak to the point of being a defect. It will probaby never come around. The defect was inherent in the violin itself. If it hadn't been so, we might have bought it.

Instruments of this type must be played on to remain the great performers that they are. This is why wealthy collectors who invest in them usually insure them and then lend them out to world famous performing artists to remain in use in constant practice and in concerts. We get the opportunity to hear them, the violin remains at the top of its performing capabilities. Unfortunately, according to this violin maker many of them have been restored at one time or another by less than the best skilled people. Worse yet, many are coming to the end of their useful lives. 300 years of playing is a long life for a musical instrument in constant use.
 
Well, again, a little history:
Before I was into hi fi itself, I was VERY interested in the sound of different acoustic guitars. I got my first guitar in 1957, made it into a solid body with electronics, in 1958, bought a used Fender Strat, and got a Vega with 1938 Gibson guitar amp, and fell in love with my first classical guitar in 1960, just at the beginning of the folk movement.
I lost my classical guitar in 1963 through a theft from my car, and I was heart-broken. I TRIED to replace it with an identical copy, didn't sound right, bought a Goya (different manufacturer) turned it back in to the music store, picked up a very used 12 string for $30 that sounded better, and finally in 1964, I flew to Mexico and bought the finest classical guitar that I could find on sale. Took it back to the USA, lived with it for about 1 year, and traded it for a voltmeter.
Now what? No classical guitar, just a 12 string, that was pretty sounding, but played like a truck would feel to a normal driver.
So, in 1970 I picked up a Yamaha classical guitar. Remember, this was when the Japanese Yen was very low. Such a deal, beautifully made, good accurate frets, but it just would not 'break-in'. I gave it to my ex-wife.
Then in the late '70's, my 12 string was stolen (a real loss) and I acquired a Martin, by trading some extra audio equipment, that really sounded good ! Great in fact. I had it, and loved it, until it was destroyed in the firestorm in 1991, almost 20 years ago.
Now, what is the point to all this? I, personally happen to be sensitive to the sound of guitars, and I am not always happy with whatever I can get, no matter: how much time elapses, what it costs, what its brand is, how pretty it is, or how easy it is to play.
Guess what, there is something else about the guitars that I like, it is called 'sound quality' and that is difficult to measure. I certainly don't know how to, anyone have any suggestions? (more later)

OK show and tell - this is the best acoustic guitar I own (or ever have).

Hand built by a guy called Milton Thorne. I had never seen one before I
bought this and actually haven't seen another one since.

Blackwood back & sides, spanish heel, french polished and a -very- lightly
braced top. The sound - magical. Incredible guitar.

T
 

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So far it has not been possible for electronic recording and playback means to come even close to duplicating this instrument's sound, at least not to my ears.

I still found the second link (with the spectral plots) interesting in that the measurable differences in the radiation patterns of the instruments were huge, sometimes >10dB. One would expect them to sound very different. The degrees of freedom on this problem make it virtually intractable.
 
SY is referring to the fact that Takamine (of Japan) copied the Martin to such a degree that they were sued (and lost, I believe).

I also have one of those guitars, as well as a real Martin. The Takamine is barely adequate for casual playing. The Martin is a gift from heaven. One can play a single open chord and the sound will transport you.
 
I'm a barely adequate player. :D I have to admit that the guitar sounded MUCH better when a friend of mine (who is an actual real guitarist) played a few tunes on it. He liked it quite a bit, but it's no Martin. Then again, it only cost $400 new. I'm amazed at how many superb guitarists here in Austin play cheap, shoddy instruments and make them sing.

Actually, the Martin thing never got to court- Tak changed their headstock style voluntarily and Martin backed off.
 
Let us separate musical instrumental quality from musicianship. A real musician can make MUSIC on just about anything. At the same time, a real musician can disassemble information from a small radio playing an orchestra that would amaze the rest of us. This is MUSICIANSHIP, not AUDIO REPRODUCTION or the quality of the musical instrument.
Charles Hansen said it best. It also happened when Yamaha tried to make a classical guitar, as well. It just did NOT have it, and it did NOT have it, BIGTIME!
This happens with phono cartridges and an experienced ear, and why I am so happy to NOW have a phono pickup similar to the one I lost, from the same maker, years ago. The difference between phono cartridges can be much the same as differences between guitars. This can increase the cost differences, dearly as well, due to refinement and craftsmanship.
And as well, this is MORE IMPORTANT to some people, and less important to others, who might enjoy the musician play, much more than the subtle aspects of his voice or instrument. It is like, some people focus on the words and style, others on the sound quality.
 
Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
Joined 2005
well, I also smell snobbery

its a fact that a Strad will be completely worn out when played professionally hard for a number of years

alone because of that such should be forbidden by law

but theres also a commercial element of playing a Strad

Im no expert, but I have built a violin trying to use stricktly original Stradivarius methods and tools
well, in reality I like all kinds of musical instruments
 

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well, I also smell snobbery

its a fact that a Strad will be completely worn out when played professionally hard for a number of years

alone because of that such should be forbidden by law

but theres also a commercial element of playing a Strad

Im no expert, but I have built a violin trying to use stricktly original Stradivarius methods and tools
well, in reality I like all kinds of musical instruments

Most of those old fiddles have been modified and repaired (with parts replaced) so much that Stradivarius would hardly recognize one of his own, soundwise as well as appearance.

John
 
Let us separate musical instrumental quality from musicianship. A real musician can make MUSIC on just about anything. At the same time, a real musician can disassemble information from a small radio playing an orchestra that would amaze the rest of us. This is MUSICIANSHIP, not AUDIO REPRODUCTION or the quality of the musical instrument.
Charles Hansen said it best. It also happened when Yamaha tried to make a classical guitar, as well. It just did NOT have it, and it did NOT have it, BIGTIME!
This happens with phono cartridges and an experienced ear, and why I am so happy to NOW have a phono pickup similar to the one I lost, from the same maker, years ago. The difference between phono cartridges can be much the same as differences between guitars. This can increase the cost differences, dearly as well, due to refinement and craftsmanship.
And as well, this is MORE IMPORTANT to some people, and less important to others, who might enjoy the musician play, much more than the subtle aspects of his voice or instrument. It is like, some people focus on the words and style, others on the sound quality.

According to Dr. Oliver Sacks, a neurologist at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital in NYC, there is a demonstrated connection between music and the human brain. In his book Musicophilia, he documents many medical observations of people with all kinds of disorders in the way their minds and bodies react to music.

Musicophilia | Oliver Sacks, M.D., Physician, Author, Neurologist

He says that every human society dating back 50,000 years has had one form of music or another.

The liturgical and secular music that evolved into what we call classical music and the music that was the evolution of the American jazz idiom are considered to be fine arts, the highest value examples of their type. The best minds that ever considered how musical tones and rhythms could be combined to create music invented it. Those who have spent a lifetime mastering a musical instrument or training their voices and understanding and interpreting the intent of the composers of great music bring us an unparalleled enriching experience. It is even further enhanced when the instruments they perform on have been created by the greatest craftsmen such as those violin makers in Cremona Italy centuries ago and when performed in venues which by nature of their construction further enhance the experience.

It was a legitimate and worthy goal of engineers and scientists to try to capture and recreate these sounds so that they could be fully enjoyed at will by many more people than have access to that experience live or at times when it is not available live to anyone. That they have not nearly succeeded in recreating these experiences is disappointing and it strkes me that they had given up and lost interest in the problem sometime around the late 1970s to 1980s. It isn't clear to me what the current goal of the industry that produces what is supposed to be high end electronic sound reproducing equipment is. If it is to legitimize the substitution of one experience for another, IMO it is a very poor substitute it has provided so far, a pale and far less than satisfactory facsimile of the real thing. This is why I am so derisive about its efforts. For all the good its practicioners do, they might just as well argue over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Saying it only gets them angry and it is clear why that is so.
 
You have a good point, Soundminded, but that is not what I concentrate on, in making quality audio. You might be VERY surprised what I have heard and have worked on in audio reproduction, that MIGHT make what you want more viable, but it is not MY area of expertise. The difference between you and my associates who DO work on recreating the entire acoustic ambience, is that they also INSIST on the best electronic reproduction possible, as well. However, like many classical musicians, you might be more easily able to 'forgive' some audio reproduction irregularities, so long as another part of the acoustic reproduction is preserved. Apparently, in your situation, the acoustic space, but correct me, if I am wrong.
 
I've got a Lawsuit Takamine. :D
I love the lawsuit era Japanese instruments. I've owned many, mainly solidbody electrics over the years and they have more them once been preferred by die hard Reckenbacker and Gibson users, with my Greco Les Paul being used on a friend's albums even though he is sponsored by Gibson. Another friend has a no name Japanese made acoustic guitar that has an incredible tone, but I think it might be a freak. Personally I prefer carbon fibre for my basses, especially some made by a guy named Ned, and just to keep it slightly to subject and related a bit to John, I recently sold my last Alembic.
 
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