Well, on the bright side, you can say "crap" now. Couldn't do that before. So maybe things are looking up.
se
Entirely O.T. A friend who grew up in New England was teased by his classmates because his initials were B.R.A. So when he had his firstborn he absolutely made sure that the three initials would not have the same problem. So the kid's first two names were Byron & Stedeford (sp!). He was so happy that B.S.A. had no negative implications. He ignored the common practice of just using the first initials and the last name.
The whole business is hypothetical.
No results of any of this magnificent test philosophy have been presented in our thread, only insinuations. An amusing paradox, given the posture of Debunking presented by its proponents.
Meanwhile, John Curl will design fine Audio equipment, ignoring it completely, without loss. We can only hope that he continues to discuss the design process here - the business that really matters, in the face of all this chaff.
That's not so bad. I had the misfortune of growing up with the initials S.H.E. And that was on top of all the "Eddy spaghetti" taunts.
se
Yes, Rod, I guessed as much & so did you - that's why you asked the question of SY in the first place, I presume & he ignored answering it.
It just points to the fact that I mentioned about the disingenous approach of certain posters on this thread - taking a hypothetical statement & trying to make a factual statement out of it - doesn't lead one to having much faith in the intentions of these people, does it?
It also is hysterical, as you point out, that these same "Randy Sloan" debunkers try to tell others the yardstick by which they should judge their audio equipment. Hilarious that these people have no self-awareness!
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Still O.T......
Giving names is not easy. Honda Jazz had quite a different name initially. But they had to change the name. Read why:
Why Honda Didn’t Call The Fit - Jazz By Its Intended Name... - Carscoop
Giving names is not easy. Honda Jazz had quite a different name initially. But they had to change the name. Read why:
Why Honda Didn’t Call The Fit - Jazz By Its Intended Name... - Carscoop
That's not so bad. I had the misfortune of growing up with the initials S.H.E. And that was on top of all the "Eddy spaghetti" taunts.
se
Ah, John Wesley Hardin should have been your role model. He is noted for killing a man in the hotel room next to his for snoring too loudly.
Its sad that these things are made up again and again. Nobody tells anybody how to judge their systems or what to chose to buy or build. The only thing said is that if you want to know the sound difference only between two amps, (for example), you'd need to do a controlled test. That's all.
Somebody asked about controlled testing. One poster a page or so back asked it specifically. Another poster tells about testing two clearly different labelled cables and wondered why his test wasn't controlled.
Clearly, the understanding of what a controlled test really is is wanting.
It's unfortunate that those who try to explain it get accused of all kinds of things that they never said.
Then again, a clown always gets more laughs than a thinker.
jan didden
Jan,
Here we disagree a bit. If I want to know the difference between two audio components for my own use I can just listen to them. If this is to be published with results others are expected to trust then controlled tests meeting reasonable current standards are the norm.
The fellow who did the cable tests did do them to the best of his ability, but his methods do not conform to what is expected for published test results in most journals. Even then scientific publishing standards still allow through errors from time to time so the real folks publish retractions as the errors are made clear.
That is not to say he did not hear differences in the cables, but the method he used is not up to the current standards. It doesn't mean he is wrong, it just means the jury does not have to yield to his argument.
Even with overwhelming proof of anything there will still be people who do not believe it. But that is an issue of "Faith."
Interesting enough in professional systems the contract usually asks for specific quality of equipment and directs how it is to be installed, or it asks for measurable standards such as frequency response and SPL to be met. It is the ignorant who ask for both. (If you tell me what to use and how to install it and it doesn't work, it is not my problem.)
When proof of performance has been needed I used the ANSI standard articulation test. (1971 version I think.) This is not a double blind test, but is widely accepted. That has not only satisfied everyone, but usually leaves them quite impressed. From that I am more comfortable using machine based tests to emulate the results from human based testing.
ES
Don't try & paint yourself as the wronged party in this. You guys regularly tell people that you don't believe their listening impressions have any value.
When anybody introduces an idea which may be useful to improve sound they get the usual treatment from the lynch mob of objectivists that trawls this forum.
Am I interested in controlled tests - yes, if they don't involve hiring a university department to do them as was suggested to me in another thread. I would only find controlled tests useful for teasing out very fine differences between things & I'm not that anal about things. If there is only this small a difference then it's not that important really. It may have significance when all these small improvements are accumulated into a noticeable difference in sound.
This is the point that all you objectivists fail to understand - some differences are so obvious that a controlled test is laughable & a waste of effort - it's like asking someone to prove that they can hear the difference between a piano & a violin without peeking - laughable.
Harman International seems to get something out of it . . .
YouTube - Double-blind testing of Ipod Music Stations at Harman International
YouTube - tonmeister86's Channel
YouTube - tonmeister86's Channel
"In Harman International’s blind-listening room, test speakers are listened to from behind a visually opaque but acoustically transparent curtain, unseen by listeners; an automated "speaker shuffler" moves test speakers into and out of position, so that each occupies precisely the same position in the room."
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Hi Ed,
Agree 100%. I can do what I want for my own use. I can select an amp on a whim if I want and it's nobodies business whatsoever.
If OTOH you want to convince me that your new amp is the worlds best, I ask for some convincing arguments. I have the highest respect for you, but you telling me that it's the greatest amp because you heard it yourself is not quite the convincing argument I'm looking for
jan didden
Hi Ed,
If OTOH you want to convince me that your new amp is the worlds best, I ask for some convincing arguments. I have the highest respect for you, but you telling me that it's the greatest amp because you heard it yourself is not quite the convincing argument I'm looking for
jan didden
But Jan you know I never make missteaks!
ES
Well, I can only talk for myself - I'm on record giving as my opinion that uncontrolled personal listening has value for who does the listening, but are nor a reliable indicator, in general, for others.
[Actually, I should have stopped this discussion but there's so much stuff written that's simply untrue I can't let go].
jan didden
Yes it is. And the best part is you can ignore some folks entirely!
A gentleman who always acknowledges another's correspondence when matched with the same carries on for life!
When you do it just to defend your ego you will eventually lose. I have a 16' wide door in the back so I can get mine inside each morning!
Oh I understand - some differences are so obvious, and yet can no longer be heard when there's a curtain in front of the equipment. You'd be surprised how obvious differences can disappear! Not unless you put up that curtain, and ask a friend to switch equipment, or not as may be the case, you'll never know, don't you.
jan didden
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