Hi,
And I thought these Qps were supposed to improve a system's sound?
From the above description it can't possibly do that.
That said, everyone can easily insert a 30 milliohm resistor en lieu of that QP at a fraction of the cost of a QP and listen for themselves.
Miracles, belief and nothing showing up in measurements.....?
If the Qps work then they'll also have to overcome the effect of their series resistance and that alone would be mere magic.
Never heard one of these at work though but I'm not the kind of guy that dismisses whatever it is he does not understand either.
Cheers,
And I thought these Qps were supposed to improve a system's sound?
From the above description it can't possibly do that.
That said, everyone can easily insert a 30 milliohm resistor en lieu of that QP at a fraction of the cost of a QP and listen for themselves.
Miracles, belief and nothing showing up in measurements.....?
If the Qps work then they'll also have to overcome the effect of their series resistance and that alone would be mere magic.
Never heard one of these at work though but I'm not the kind of guy that dismisses whatever it is he does not understand either.
Cheers,
Thank you Scott, that is indeed a compliment, and the respect is fully mutual.
Yes of course, I don't swallow for one millisecond any of the guff on the Bybee website.
However, I do have BQP's in my posession, and I do find that they do have an audible effect.
I ain't sayin' exactly how I have used/experimented with them, but it's not exactly how the maker intended.
Their subject effect is an overall damping of noise type signals, and this has further collateral effect of reducing consequent imd type junk in less than optimal audio circuitry...ie typical audio circuits that have greater than zero noise componentry, iow all typical audio gear.
For gear that is well low noise optimised the effect is lessened, as is to be expected.
So, the resultant is indeed a subjective cleaning/clarifying of final system in room sound, BUT the downside is that the QP's as I know them also add a subtle signature of sorts, and one that I am not in love with.
A close/extended listening with 1/f noise source signal is most interesting.
Dan.
You are making assumptions and barking up the wrong tree, the Qp's are on loan, so there are no financial influence/expectations on my part.
I am quite satisfied with the sounds of my systems with the removable self made tweaks that I have applied to them.
Removable tweaks the likes of the QP's and BlackDiscus don't quite cut the mustard when compared to what I'm running with.
Action at a distance...hah, I've been using it for a decade and more.
Dan.
Yes I am. Sorry if I've offended.
Where did you loan them from? also how can I get in on that? I will try any component if someone thinks it improves sound quality. I could try them on my TDA1541 DAC.
I will also gladly debunk (or review) any component which lifts money out of peoples pockets.
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No worries, no offence taken, just letting you know that you were jumping the gun.
A private arrangement, sorry about that.
Dan.
So, in effect, they act a power line filter. What you say corresponds EXACTLY with my 12 year experinece with power line filters. Unlike the Bybee, mine can be measured if you have the gear for it and if you're interested enough. It's essentially a C-L-C-L-C, a passive filter and it intropduces a loss of around 0.7V input to output.
But as you say, it has different effects on different gear. In some cases, you hardly notice it's there, in other cases the difference is like literally day and night. Nothing to do with gear status, applies equally to very cheap and damn expensive, and the only way to know which is by actually trying it in your system. It has never worked with Jadice equipment, and if you tell me you have them, I will not sell it to you.But it transformed a total of three Krell amps in their respective systems and if I hadn'e been there, I probably wouldn't have believed such a difference was possible.
When it sits well, the usual effects are much more spatial information, especially front to back, with a good recording and good gear you can hear that the trumpet layer is located to the right behind the violin player, that sort of thing. Background noise drops to next to nothing, and the difference in playing very softly and very louds almost disappears. But whne it can't help, the difference with and without is almost nil. Which moved me to offer a money back trial period, I can't even guess at all the variables possible.
The point is, and I think it holds true for all types of filters, that you won't know until you try it. To my surprise, it sems to me that the very idea of a power line filter is met with extreme mistrust on this thread, and by qualified and established engineers who would know how to measure it and compare their results with my pblished results. They prefer to construct their own usually L-C filters inside, when the line junk has already hit the transformer, i.e. a bit after the fact. Therefore, I support Max's and John's views not because he's John Curl, but because I have experince with such situations with completely unrelated gear.
What I find disturbuing and odd to say the least that qualified engineers are willing to argue a point without even trying it out, without measuring to see if there are some tangible effects, but rather dimiss it right off the bat. Anyone can write a pile of blurb, and the blurb may be anything from entertaining hear-say to outright voodoo and black magic, but their device may actually work at some point. And they talk of closed minds.
How many of you knocking Bybees John is talking about have actually tried it?
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Call it a power line filter then, not a Quantum noise filter.
I don't mind power line filters, infact we get a lot of lightning where I am and you don't know your equipment is fried until its too late because the storm could be 5km away and it will send a surge up the power line. So I assure you, I like power line filters, I just don't implement them because they are costly and because I hate replacing them after a big strike, so I'm planning on building my own soon to be used externally at the wall outlet instead of putting them into every single piece of equipment that I own.
I agree that its annoying that people will be hesitant in trying out a device, but these aren't 30 cent resistors, these are $100-$300 devices. The reason why we want to get measurements from their effects is because its just like every other god damn thing on this planet, which has specifications. These devices however do not. And we are expected to believe that they do whatever the hell they are supposed to do on Faith.
Faith is not going to get $100 out of my wallet. You know what I would rather spend that money on? A doctors appointment for me or my mother. We aren't people with endless supplies of money you know. We need proof.
If I were in control of this company I would fire the Marketing guy for doing too much LSD on the spot for ever going near the word Quantum in relation to a power line filter. Yet on the website for these devices the word Quantum is used LIBERALLY. With added hullabaloo for good measure.
There is no evidence on this earth or any other planet or in this entire universe that can say that these devices do anything with the Quantum noise of anything, ever.
This is outrageous behavior and offends the Scientific community very much, never mind what it does to the people who are trying to learn Science and apply it in their free time as volunteers to their favorite hobby, Audio.
It is offensive to use the word Quantum to describe a device which has so far given no measurable changes, if they change something that is measurable then state it as such, don't blow smoke up our *** and call it a Quantum noise filter.
That's why I'm not buying them. Don't know about you.
And excuse me if I've offended anyone, but that's how I feel about this. And this new puported invention had better be made from unicorn dust or I'll have to give my membership card to the nearest warden of this asylum and say good day.
I might butt out of this thread for a while.
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Yes and no.
Close to zero voltage drop (0.025R).
What is your noise reduction below, say 20 Hz ?.
I believe you (my experience also).
Yes, low level noise, especially VLF noise spoils the party.
Remove/reduce the psu noise/circuit noise and all that detail (depth info and subtleties) suddenly springs to life....ie the audio signal is not obscured by psu noise itself, and the consequent imd products.
Imo, 1/f VLF noise is not given the attention/priority that it deserves...remember, 1/f noise amplitude rises rapidly with reducing frequency.
Large (relatively) deviations at low (random) repetition rates change operating points, and give rise to memory distortions that are not concordant with the audio signal.
Imho, immunity to/freedom from VLF 1/f noise is in large measure what separates very good audio gear from standard audio gear.
Iow, VLF 1/f noise is not heard directly, but it's consequences are.
Yes, filtering before the transformer is important.
It wasn't taught at college, so it can't work.
Unfortunately, too many tweak type products are buried under unsubstantiated claims, and BS techno-speak ad copy.
Close to zero...actually make that exactly zero.
Dan.
That is eaxctly what I do call it, a power line filter, because that's what it is. I hate propaganda terms like "conditioner" etc. An egg I call an egg, not a "chicken product".
True, the prices are hardly low, my largest model cost €945 plus shipping, which is about USD 1,300 all told. I do NOT expect anyone to buy it unseen, which is why I had the option of a free trial of two weeks (counting from the day you actually receive it as per the UPS or FedEx notice to me as the shipper), no questions aksed, no reasons required.All you had to do is just notify me that you are sending it back, that's all, I need that to activate pricing per contract I have with UPS. Believe it or not, in 12 years, only one came back from France. A whole lot more came back for another, which saved me a bunch of money for advertising.
I kept pointing out to intersted people that they really should try it before buying it. Most got the point Statistically, most questions came from the Netherlands and Germany, but then these two were switching places on my No.1 customer market forever. Canadians were good cistomers, Americans weren't any customers to speak of, as far as I know there are only 3 units in USA, two in St.Paul and one somewhere in ths SF Bay area, don't know exctly where (the late James Bongiorno's unit).
My first ever customer was from New Zealand. A really nice guy.
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At 20 Hz attenuation is zero. Remember I muct not touch the line fequency, else all hell will break loose. But it was down at better than -60 dB at 20 kHz.
It has to be heard to be believed. I frankly admit I have encountered cases which I would not believe had I nor been there myself.
In my experience, something like 90% of unwnated disturbances lie between 1 and 90 kHz, taking into account harmonics. That's where most switching noise from fridges, hot water boilers and other household appliances are. Hair fans are often killers because of the cheap and bad motors they use.
It seems logical to me to remove all the noise and junk BEFORE it even gets to the transformer because this will make it more efficient and less noisy. Next, it allows the big system caps to act more as energy storage than filters as well, so punch and attack come across much better, clearer, more defined. Hardly surprising if you eliminate a known source of line noise, of course that whatever comes after that will work better. With the filter on line, my PC draws about 7-9% less power from the grid, and my monitor picture is better defined in detail and colour. As they should. And by 80 kHz, it's about -80 dB down.
Ufortunately, all too true. The worst of it is that power line filters were routinely used 50 years ago, when the grid was much cleaner, mostly in aviation (radars) and telecomms. My favorite eample of how and what it does is when you attach it to a scanner, the picture gets better to much better right away. Before I knew it, I was selling them ot oftamologists, who rely on precise imaging for testing of exyesight, so they have a vested interest in as good an image as they can get from their very expensive gear.
My own filter is the grand-grand-son of one such model locally used since 1974. Much evolved, of course, but still basically the same.
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Don't forget, the claims are not just the nonsense but violations of first principles so yes I will say they can't do that any more than power their car with water (conventional car that is).
Removing noise in favor of signal is such a claim.
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Reducing VLF 1/f noise is the original claim.
This is out of audio band, so no audio information loss.
Dan.
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