Some of us are able to learn from more than one source. But if you're determined to blow off an actual expert, well, your loss.
No. Forum thread.
Ironically, we are required to publish everything. But it's not available to the public.
Go figure.
Me, I'll provide to anybody the trials and tribulations I've gone through, whatever details that can help others. I've been in the really neat position of having to learn tin/silver before everybody else.
When the general public started being forced to deal with lead free, I'd already had a decade of experience. At this point in time, I've 25 years experience with lead free and 30 years experience soldering in a production environment.
My intent is to spread that knowledge and experience around. We've become too much a society where mechanical skills are not valued..
Oddly enough, the same was said by Goodrich in his book The Modern Clock.
In 1905.
jn
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How's he doing, didn't see him at this year's analog affictionado party.
Excellent. It is important to do so occasionally.
Well, we're all ears...what's new about it, how is it better, what does it solve?
You fail miserably in that regard.
And it's all because it's me...
Itty, bitty, me..
Have a good weekend..
cheers, John
You know I have met experts with five or fewer years of experience and guys who after forty or fifty years would have an opinion and some suggestions but no firm answer.
JN when you scrape the leads on old parts you basically knock of the oxide, although there is often some fresh exposed copper. What remains solders nicely. It isn't a question of polishing the family silver till it shines for company.
Now as to your anecdotes about how to solder....
JN when you scrape the leads on old parts you basically knock of the oxide, although there is often some fresh exposed copper. What remains solders nicely. It isn't a question of polishing the family silver till it shines for company.
Now as to your anecdotes about how to solder....
I think he already stated them and in great detail. Now admittedly nuclear research equipment isn't nearly as critical as fashion audio.
Ed and Struth,
I want to appologize, I was only talking about thermal effects on resistors with respect to distortion. I found some of my old references, one from Kanagawa University, did some research with a CLT1 and their own setup. They attribute the small amout of seconds they saw with their test (the CLT1 is only thirds) to, ED you'll love this, essentially micro-diodes or in their words an unknown rectifying mechanism. Only the worst carbon comps I tested showed this and indeed the distortion changed differently depending on which end I pushed. I would consider this a pathological behavior, but even so at levels where no one would use them they were below -100dB. BTW the 40yr. old carbon comp had moved to +21% out of tolerance.
A tiny 1/8 W carbon film at 5V rms had -128dB thirds only which as expected increased at 10Hz (the thermal corner was below 100Hz).
At the -100dB level I remain skeptical of any anecdotal comments of extreme coloration. I would never use anything but 1% metal films in anything I build personally.
EDIT - I went back to my Stanford Research DS360 balanced oscillator so I could put some real volts on things. Beware they use a DAC and lots of filtering and the noise floor is actually lots of little artifacts (at least no matter how hard I try to set it up). Pick the right frequencies and you can read down to -150dB or so.
I want to appologize, I was only talking about thermal effects on resistors with respect to distortion. I found some of my old references, one from Kanagawa University, did some research with a CLT1 and their own setup. They attribute the small amout of seconds they saw with their test (the CLT1 is only thirds) to, ED you'll love this, essentially micro-diodes or in their words an unknown rectifying mechanism. Only the worst carbon comps I tested showed this and indeed the distortion changed differently depending on which end I pushed. I would consider this a pathological behavior, but even so at levels where no one would use them they were below -100dB. BTW the 40yr. old carbon comp had moved to +21% out of tolerance.
A tiny 1/8 W carbon film at 5V rms had -128dB thirds only which as expected increased at 10Hz (the thermal corner was below 100Hz).
At the -100dB level I remain skeptical of any anecdotal comments of extreme coloration. I would never use anything but 1% metal films in anything I build personally.
EDIT - I went back to my Stanford Research DS360 balanced oscillator so I could put some real volts on things. Beware they use a DAC and lots of filtering and the noise floor is actually lots of little artifacts (at least no matter how hard I try to set it up). Pick the right frequencies and you can read down to -150dB or so.
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Visit. I'll show you all. Here, and on the other sides of the ponds..
My work still keeps pluggin away. 17 years so far, no failures.
Of course, particle accelerators up to 25 miles long are no match for " high end audio"
And I've dealt with experts who buy a piece of test equipment, test something, and report the results as good when the measurement is actually the least significant digit. No error bars, no baselining, nuttin.
At some point in time, you have to learn how to distinguish gold from scrap. When the questions indicate lack of knowledge, it's easy..
JC doesn't scrape the leads. Don't you read?? He makes them shiny.. eye candy.
I post what I do. Not what I "heard" second hand, nor third hand. I also post real information from legit websites. When I discuss flux, I link to a flux manufacturer. You hint at nobel laureates.. authority dropping to the extreme...
If you don't understand, don't want to understand, or choose not to listen, that doesn't matter to me...
I will answer any technical question you ask, if it is within my area of expertise and experience. If you don't like it...again, that doesn't matter to me..
Have a nice weekend ed..
jn
A bit mundane perhaps, but I found the literature here interesting: especially the basic soldering primer .pdf
Catalogues & Flyers | Publications & News | An ERSA soldering machine, soldering station or BGA rework system - best solutions for PCB manufacturing industries
Catalogues & Flyers | Publications & News | An ERSA soldering machine, soldering station or BGA rework system - best solutions for PCB manufacturing industries
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From a good source
ASM Handbook Volume 06: Welding, Brazing, and Soldering
The attachments is a patch of data, answering questions that have been asked
George
Attachments
jn, since you've generously offering up your experience about the soldering game, and other things, it would be very useful to get your POV about the best way to sort out a lead in very poor condition. Say, for whatever reasons, you must use one instance of a part, and because of its own history a lead of that part is in terrible shape - coated or contaminated with all sorts of gunk, it looks a mess.
What would your recommended set of steps be to restore the lead to optimum, a type of checklist so to speak ...?
Thanks for that ...
What would your recommended set of steps be to restore the lead to optimum, a type of checklist so to speak ...?
Thanks for that ...
I'm impressed. That's unique in my experience. Fifteen years ago everyone I worked with seemed to be on the same lead-free learning curve. Lots of trial and error.
Could you (re)state what you'd consider the best lead-free solder formulation for the projects most common to members here, audio and power supplies?
Making Old Better Than New...
In my time I have of course repaired/restored plenty of audio items with buggered solder joints, and I use two methods to restore these.
One method is to mount the pcb at 30* angle, and apply new solder whilst wicking away the melt on the iron tip and disposing of...two or three cycles of this dissolves away oxides and effectively 'rinses' the original solder away.
Another method is to apply new solder, desolder (solder sucker), and then reapply new solder...a couple of cycles of this method may be required.
On lots of old gear, the component leads were trimmed after soldering, leaving exposed wire ends.
These wire ends become oxidised, and the corrosion can continue down between the solder fillet and the wire.
My solution is to use a needle file to remove the corroded wire end, before using the above soldering methods.
The filing process is very effective and quite fast...filing the wire ends on a typical audio board takes only a few minutes.
I also solvent clean the rework area before and after this processing.
The point of all of this is that new solder dissolves oxides/tarnish, but saturates quickly, hence copious new solder and multiple cycles being required to achieve perfect and lifetime reliable joints.
Use 1.2mm or 1.6mm solder....these work better that thinner sizes.
I have had occasion to revisit pro gear (big amplifiers etc) that I have serviced previously, and the new faults have never been due to my solder reworking...faulty pots, connectors etc, indeed the solder joints look pristine 15+ years later.
Dan.
Hi Frank.
In my time I have of course repaired/restored plenty of audio items with buggered solder joints, and I use two methods to restore these.
One method is to mount the pcb at 30* angle, and apply new solder whilst wicking away the melt on the iron tip and disposing of...two or three cycles of this dissolves away oxides and effectively 'rinses' the original solder away.
Another method is to apply new solder, desolder (solder sucker), and then reapply new solder...a couple of cycles of this method may be required.
On lots of old gear, the component leads were trimmed after soldering, leaving exposed wire ends.
These wire ends become oxidised, and the corrosion can continue down between the solder fillet and the wire.
My solution is to use a needle file to remove the corroded wire end, before using the above soldering methods.
The filing process is very effective and quite fast...filing the wire ends on a typical audio board takes only a few minutes.
I also solvent clean the rework area before and after this processing.
The point of all of this is that new solder dissolves oxides/tarnish, but saturates quickly, hence copious new solder and multiple cycles being required to achieve perfect and lifetime reliable joints.
Use 1.2mm or 1.6mm solder....these work better that thinner sizes.
I have had occasion to revisit pro gear (big amplifiers etc) that I have serviced previously, and the new faults have never been due to my solder reworking...faulty pots, connectors etc, indeed the solder joints look pristine 15+ years later.
Dan.
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