i've heard a titan 48 and that cab certainly went loud, i hope to compare it with my Jbell tapped horn soon.
i have the autotuba for in my car from billfitzmaurice too, can't really say a bad thing about it, sounds as promised, could go a little deeper though.
had the omni tallboy too (3 way with eminence 3015LF and alpha 8 MR for the mids in a horn + a tweeter) and that cab was a dissapointment in the lows.
i have the autotuba for in my car from billfitzmaurice too, can't really say a bad thing about it, sounds as promised, could go a little deeper though.
had the omni tallboy too (3 way with eminence 3015LF and alpha 8 MR for the mids in a horn + a tweeter) and that cab was a dissapointment in the lows.
I'd love to hear / see others measurements on a T48 vs this TH. (no one would believe me... or even this) http://www.prosoundshootout.com/Measurements/2007/Titan800w.jpg
Typically tuba / titans are -13db at 40hz vs 100hz, where the TH is reasonably flat. This was huge for me, because I needed not just outdoors, but outdoors in the air (30' high) so I was running subs in full space. I understand Bill's philosophy on 'stepped response' aka, you don't need to be flat to 40. In my case, I felt I needed it, and the charts at the time led me to believe I could get what I needed from T36.
Here's a pic of the T36 chart in question. Just so everyone knows... this is clipped directly from BF's site at the time, and the hornresp was from bgavin, who has direct knowledge of the T36 IP... so this is not a reverse engineer from me or anything. I just want to make sure it's understood, I'm not the originator of either of these charts....
Typically tuba / titans are -13db at 40hz vs 100hz, where the TH is reasonably flat. This was huge for me, because I needed not just outdoors, but outdoors in the air (30' high) so I was running subs in full space. I understand Bill's philosophy on 'stepped response' aka, you don't need to be flat to 40. In my case, I felt I needed it, and the charts at the time led me to believe I could get what I needed from T36.
Here's a pic of the T36 chart in question. Just so everyone knows... this is clipped directly from BF's site at the time, and the hornresp was from bgavin, who has direct knowledge of the T36 IP... so this is not a reverse engineer from me or anything. I just want to make sure it's understood, I'm not the originator of either of these charts....
Attachments
Hornresp inputs? ask BF or bruce.. and you won't get an answer. That's Bill's IP.
If you have the plans, reverse engineer as close as you can with the dimensions for whatever width you choose.
I cannot post any hornresp that I have done this with, without violating Bill's IP. (which I respect)
However, my opinion. V-plated in a corner is the best place for these.
Advantage to the TH? it doesn't need a corner.
If you have the plans, reverse engineer as close as you can with the dimensions for whatever width you choose.
I cannot post any hornresp that I have done this with, without violating Bill's IP. (which I respect)
However, my opinion. V-plated in a corner is the best place for these.
Advantage to the TH? it doesn't need a corner.
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Paul, if you're referring to your party: I wasn't really pushing it. Can we do a shoot out at your place?
@ Jbell: if Paul has a suitable place, maybe we have a some 'real life' measurements soon
. I have two T48's loaded with 3015LF. They're only 21" wide, not 24" like the plans state (otherwise they wouldn't fit in my car ), so they will be a little less loud, but not that much.Paul, maybe we can measure 1 TH, 1 T48, 2 T48's and 2 T48's V-plated. What are you using to power your TH?
Outside would be great! Assuming you use the 3015LF from the Omni15, all cabs are loaded with the same speaker, so it's going to be a pretty fair comparison.
This weekend is a bit busy for me, but can we do it next weekend, let's say saturday afternoon?
28V, Paul, how close are your neighbours, 'cause that's gonna be loud
.Looking at the charts, I expect that too, jbell. I am thinking about measuring methods now. The only thing I have that is calibrated for SPL, is my Behringer DEQ2496 with the ECM8000 measurement mic. But I have various options for measuring (relative) frequency curves. Of course I can measure 100Hz on the DEQ2496 and then adjust the mic preamp for the same level in SMAART or something
.What's the best place to put the mic? I'm thinking ground plain or 1 inch from the ground
...28V, Paul, how close are your neighbours, 'cause that's gonna be loud
I had all 4 of them in my front yard at 20v... 40hz sine wave... 114db@10m... back behind me, the lock fell apart on my garage door... just plopped out. I stopped there.
yea... good times....
Keep in mind, the TH will probably test different on it's side, vs standing up, so you may want to try some things out.
I'll go out on a limb here and make a guess. I think (at equal wattage) The single TH at 28v, will still be louder at 40hz than the pair of T48's v-plated at 20v. And as you add power, the TH will get louder, but not the T48. (at 40hz) If you look at the 2007 shootout numbers, the T48 made basically the same noise at 40hz with 100watts, as it did with 800watts. Now at 100hz... the T48 should eat the TH's lunch.
As I said, it's a guess... Let me know what your neighbors think of your testing.
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Outside would be great! Assuming you use the 3015LF from the Omni15, all cabs are loaded with the same speaker, so it's going to be a pretty fair comparison.
This weekend is a bit busy for me, but can we do it next weekend, let's say saturday afternoon?
28V, Paul, how close are your neighbours, 'cause that's gonna be loud
not real close, i live on a farm, behind it are nothing but fields, we could measure on grass or concrete too, i just have to check if i can find enough extention cords
not real close, i live on a farm, behind it are nothing but fields, we could measure on grass or concrete too, i just have to check if i can find enough extention cords
Sounds perfect. If you have time, here's another interesting item to check. Check at 10m, 20m, 30m. It would be interesting to see how these 2 cabinets compare at distance, over grass. I like to measure over grass just because that's how I typically use them. I know that's not exactly 2pi... but it is real world.
I'd be very interested also, some events noise carrying is a problem. Bass steering could be helpful too.
We've had noise complaints 5 or 10 kms down a valley using a 6k system a few years ago, woke up the neighbours we HADN'T sent on holiday!!!!
Are all these subs used for live music?
I suppose the footy field setup of jbells is band and public address??
Any good for electronic music?
And sorry to bug jbell but any photo's of the finished cabs grilled, painted etc.
Would like to know what sort of paint did you used an if moisture is a problem if the always at the field?
We've had noise complaints 5 or 10 kms down a valley using a 6k system a few years ago, woke up the neighbours we HADN'T sent on holiday!!!!
Are all these subs used for live music?
I suppose the footy field setup of jbells is band and public address??
Any good for electronic music?
And sorry to bug jbell but any photo's of the finished cabs grilled, painted etc.
Would like to know what sort of paint did you used an if moisture is a problem if the always at the field?
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i was playing around abit with models of a regular 200 liter bassreflex cab with the 3015LF in hornresp, from the models it doesn't seem alot quieter then the tapped horn with the port tuned at 40hz, a 2 x 15 like this would still be smaller at 400 liters, has about the same sensitivity and double the power handling.
Or am i overlooking something here ?
Or am i overlooking something here ?
i did some more simulations in hornresp, and been comparing it to a frontloaded horn with the 3015LF, you can get a simular response out of it in a frontloaded horn in the same size, (around 550 liters) exept the front loaded one will have alot less cone excursion.
of course this is just simulations
of course this is just simulations
i did some more simulations in hornresp, and been comparing it to a frontloaded horn with the 3015LF, you can get a simular response out of it in a frontloaded horn in the same size, (around 550 liters) exept the front loaded one will have alot less cone excursion.
of course this is just simulations
Really? 40hz is 102db or better, and is within a db of 100hz? Please post hornresp inputs.
I know Tom has said, as a TH gets bigger, it loses much of it's advantage over a FLH. However, the directionality is still something a FLH will never be able to compete with a TH on.
It'd be a REALLY INTERESTING topic to find the answer to... Why is a TH directional?
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got the 102db at 40hz, it still has a bit of rising respons though, maybe somebody else can make it even better as i didn't spent much time on this one
here are the inputs, copy paste in a .txt file and it should import.
still has a bit of rising to 106db at 100hz though... the tapped horn would be flatter there..
the main advantage of this would be that it can take 450 watts without running out of cone excursion, which should increase max spl to few db's above it.
good idea to built this ?
Ver=23.40
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=60.00
Rg=0.00
Fta=7.98
S1=600.00
S2=2000.00
Con=160.00
F12=0.00
S2=2000.00
S3=4500.00
Con=90.00
F23=0.00
S3=0.00
S4=0.00
L34=0.00
F34=0.00
S4=0.00
S5=0.00
L45=0.00
F45=0.00
Sd=881.00
Bl=18.46
Cms=1.44E-04
Rms=3.86
Mmd=84.70
Le=0.92
Re=5.31
Nd=1
Vrc=80.00
Lrc=50.00
Ap=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=0.00
Atc=0.00
Com=NEW RECORD - Default horn loudspeaker parameters
here are the inputs, copy paste in a .txt file and it should import.
still has a bit of rising to 106db at 100hz though... the tapped horn would be flatter there..
the main advantage of this would be that it can take 450 watts without running out of cone excursion, which should increase max spl to few db's above it.
good idea to built this ?
Ver=23.40
Ang=2.0 x Pi
Eg=60.00
Rg=0.00
Fta=7.98
S1=600.00
S2=2000.00
Con=160.00
F12=0.00
S2=2000.00
S3=4500.00
Con=90.00
F23=0.00
S3=0.00
S4=0.00
L34=0.00
F34=0.00
S4=0.00
S5=0.00
L45=0.00
F45=0.00
Sd=881.00
Bl=18.46
Cms=1.44E-04
Rms=3.86
Mmd=84.70
Le=0.92
Re=5.31
Nd=1
Vrc=80.00
Lrc=50.00
Ap=0.00
Lpt=0.00
Vtc=0.00
Atc=0.00
Com=NEW RECORD - Default horn loudspeaker parameters
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